Split Junk Rig for Ocean Sailing

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  • 30 Sep 2013 10:27
    Reply # 1401395 on 1400341

    Hi Arne,

    I don’t have any fluttering in normal sailing with either full sail or even deeply reefed sail. This is a perceived problem rather than a real one, so I’m not looking for a solution to a theoretical problem that I don’t suffer from.

    I still have the little statement you sent me many years ago sitting below my computer screen, which states,

    "Perfection is not achieved when there is nothing more to add – It is achieved when there is nothing more to remove."

    It ain’t bust, so I’m not fixing it!

    Cheers, Slieve.

  • 30 Sep 2013 07:50
    Reply # 1401351 on 1400341
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi Slieve,

    I suggest you or Edward just install a batten or two in a jiblet, just by hand-stitching them in place. That should take less than 30 minutes to do. It will soon show you if they act as flutter stoppers or not. It's a no-risk experiment.

    Arne

    Last modified: 30 Sep 2013 07:51 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 30 Sep 2013 07:41
    Reply # 1401343 on 1400341

    Hi David, It’s interesting that you mention the short batten idea for long distance cruising. I have considered both short battens and long ones with flexible forward sections all along, but only considered them for local racing. My thoughts have been that the inertia and stiffness of a short batten might generate a local stress point if the jib was allowed to flog and make it more likely to wear. It’s against my belief in the KISS System to add anything that is not essential.

    Off topic, David, it’s good to see that your trip is going well.

    Cheers, Slieve.

  • 30 Sep 2013 00:05
    Reply # 1401126 on 1400341
    Yes, Slieve, those things might be enough to make the split rig suitable for multi-day passages, and I'd also add a little batten, maybe a foot long,  horizontally in the centre of each jiblet, and extending from the leech forwards, to stop it flogging.
  • 29 Sep 2013 23:50
    Reply # 1401119 on 1400341

    When I drew up and built the split rig for Poppy my intention was to test the theories I had published in the article ‘Some Thoughts’, in NL 40. It was designed to be cheap to build as a test rig, easy to use and reliable enough for coastal sailing, and there was no thought of ocean sailing at that time. The resulting performance exceeded expectations and has fully justified the effort. It has encouraged others to consider the rig for their own specific applications.

    When Edward approached me he was looking for a rig to be built by a sailmaker for racing round the cans and for local sailing. There was no suggestion that the rig should be fit for long term cruising. In my limited experience of Amiina I noticed that there appears to be more twist in the rig than on Poppy with both full sail and much more when reefed.

    I fully understand David T’s concerns about the ‘loose’ leeches of the ‘jibs’, as I had those doubts myself when I started. Having tested the original rig to destruction I am now confident that the jibs can be built to an adequate standard for long term cruising, and the rest of the rig suitably arranged, and I would certainly consider the split rig for any situation.

    Without giving it too much thought, for ocean sailing I guess I would –

    1. On a 7 panel sail, keep the top two panels, the storm canvas, as full length cambered panels without splits.

    2. Continue to build each jib panels with the angled shelf foot construction, but make the centre cloth of slightly heavier material, and reinforce the whole leech with angled patches.

    3. Rig a split sheeting system to make it easier to control the twist when reefed. I might even consider an euphroe with jambers in the sheeting set up for long distance work.

    4. Probably use a slightly stronger batten at the foot of the second panel down.

    5. Consider using exotic synthetic line for the downhaul/ batten parrels as they play an important role in conditions that require reefing. (The present pink plastic line dies of UV poisoning on a sunny day).

    There is nothing sinister or magic about the split junk rig. With its low stresses it performs well and is easy to use, although it requires a different sail trim from most other western junk rigs to achieve the performance gains.

    Cheers, Slieve.

    PS. Please Annie, we use a hot knife when sailmaking on the sitting room carpet. You can cut yourself with scissors, but only brand yourself with a hot knife.

  • 29 Sep 2013 22:15
    Reply # 1401062 on 1400769
    Edward Hooper wrote:The purpose of Amiina's design was to experiment with a simpler way of making the sails, so that they could be easily replicated by a commercial sail-maker. 

    I just love that comment!  Scissors on the living room floor beats laser cutters in the computer-driven loft!
  • 29 Sep 2013 08:02
    Reply # 1400769 on 1400341
    Deleted user
    Just as a POI (point of information!) I should mention that 'Amiina' has in fact the one top panel (what I call my topsail) as a single panel (unsplit).  'Poppy' has her two top panels unsplit.
    The purpose of Amiina's design was to experiment with a simpler way of making the sails, so that they could be easily replicated by a commercial sail-maker.  There are only the three panel shapes, the top panel x 1; the jib panel x 5; the main panel x 5.
    Each of the main panels are identical, ditto the jib panels.
    Using Arne's anti-twist sheeting system, plus seperate/additional lazy-jacks for the jib panels appears to control/limit any excess flutter of the jib leaches.
    This being said, I must admit that at 36+ knots of wind speed, the leaches of the one or two jib panels still in use were starting to hum.  I put this down to my down hauls not holding the luffs tight enough (since modified) and the need for fixed lazy jacks forward to stop the forrard ends of the boom & battens from dipping too far, and the sheet ends consequently tilting up too far.  I have some interesting photos to illustrate this, when I can post them.
    Hope this helps.
    Edward
  • 28 Sep 2013 21:12
    Reply # 1400475 on 1400341
    My chief concern is that the leeches of the jiblets are loose, free, and able to flog. Now, this will not be a problem when the sail is un-twisted, but as soon as the sail is deeply reefed, it will twist, unless the sheeting system is very sophisticated. Then the upper jiblets will flog, while the lower jiblets will be full and pulling. This may be tolerable over the length of a few hours sailing, but it would be intolerable over a multi-day passage. 

    I noticed this effect when I sailed on Edward's Amiina. Slieve says he does not notice it, but the difference there is that Poppy has the upper panels of the sail in one piece, where Amiina has split panels all the way to the top. So maybe it would be OK if only the bottom half of the sail has split panels, and the top half has un-split panels, but then not much benefit would be gained, overall. 

    But I'm happy to be proved wrong. No-one yet has made a serious offshore passage with a split rig, and reported back. If they do, with a positive report, I'll eat my words. there are good points to balance the above, such as the large balance area and low stresses, and these are in its favour for offshore cruising as well as for inshore sailing. But where does the final answer lie? Good or bad for offshore cruising? We won't know until someone does it.
    Last modified: 28 Sep 2013 21:52 | Anonymous member
  • 28 Sep 2013 15:35
    Message # 1400341
    David, you mentioned (under Aerojunk rig topic) that you where not sure that the Split Junk was suitable for ocean sailing,  can you expand.  
    (To my relatively inexperienced eye, it does appear to be a very simple rig, with very few controls, though a little fiddly to make the sail.)
    Thanks Mark 
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