Anchor riding sail for junkrig

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  • 19 Aug 2021 20:54
    Reply # 10942280 on 10941070
    Hans wrote:

    David it's not for nothing that every effort is made by ocean cruisers to concentrate weight in the midships and lower areas of their vessels.
    Yep, natural ballast. Something I learned very early on in my multihull days. Keep the weight low down in the middle of the boat, and keep weight out of the ends. Applies to monohulls as well as multihulls.
  • 19 Aug 2021 08:18
    Reply # 10941070 on 10940002
    Having sailed many boats over a sailing career of 50 plus years, of many types, and a good mixture of coastal cruising and close to 30 trans-ocean passages as Skipper, I think the more buoyancy in the stern the better, and the bow as well.
    David it's not for nothing that every effort is made by ocean cruisers to concentrate weight in the midships and lower areas of their vessels.
  • 18 Aug 2021 21:00
    Reply # 10940002 on 10938922
    Mark wrote:

    Low stern.  Tell me if I am wrong, but as an ex windsurfer, so used to sailing in waves I would not wish for buoyancy in the stern. Running with the waves, with a tall stern the breaking wave hits you, you surge forward into the back face of the wave in front and are in danger of broaching. 
    low, retrouse stern, the wave can wash over you with less effect…besides filling the cockpit and finding all the gaps in your poorly designed main hatch. 

    Having sailed many boats over a sailing career of 50 plus years, of many types, and a good mixture of coastal cruising and close to 30 trans-ocean passages as Skipper, I think the more buoyancy in the stern the better, and the bow as well. I have also owned and sailed a modern open transom yacht, which having a modern hull form was very flat and buoyant in the underwater sections. That hull would lift to any following seas and never had any solid water in the cockpit. Yes, like any small yacht the stern of the boat could be engulfed by a large wave in very rough open sea conditions, but at least with the open transom the water would drain back overboard again thus helping to retain the buoyancy of the vessel.

    I have ridden out an official 70 knot storm on the way to Fiji from New Zealand one year, but in that situation, and other lesser storms, I rode to a parachute sea anchor from the bow. This was on an 11 meter trimaran.

    Our junk rig yacht 'Footprints' had a very high stern, very similar to that on 'Fanshi'. We had moderately rough sea conditions from behind on our ocean crossing up to New Caledonia, and the higher part of the stern was always above the level of the waves. Once again I carried a parachute sea anchor on that trip and if it ever came to an extreme sea conditions situation I would be riding to the sea anchor from the bow so the height of the stern would not be an issue.

  • 18 Aug 2021 12:03
    Reply # 10938922 on 10922294

    Low stern.  Tell me if I am wrong, but as an ex windsurfer, so used to sailing in waves I would not wish for buoyancy in the stern. Running with the waves, with a tall stern the breaking wave hits you, you surge forward into the back face of the wave in front and are in danger of broaching. 
    low, retrouse stern, the wave can wash over you with less effect…besides filling the cockpit and finding all the gaps in your poorly designed main hatch. 

  • 16 Aug 2021 09:49
    Reply # 10934131 on 10922294
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I think David is very right here. Cruising yachts of the last 100 years have ended up with too low freeboard at the stern. Low stern has become the accepted aesthetic standard. Today, many yachts even have open sterns with the transom removed. 
    Tystie is a radical design which rectifies this. However, it will not be easy to make yachties accept the look of it.

    Even most tenders have in my view been built with too low sterns. My experience is that most of the water I have shipped in a dinghy has been over the stern. For this reason, when drawing that 8’ Halibut tender, recently, I tried to give the stern ample buoyancy and freeboard.

    Arne


    Last modified: 17 Aug 2021 09:11 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 16 Aug 2021 08:23
    Reply # 10934047 on 10922294

    A high stern makes a great deal of sense when under way, as it facilitates having a deep cockpit and sheltered watchkeeping position while still having a good view ahead. It was common in the days of commercial sail, in both eastern and western types - except for fishing vessels that had to haul nets and pots. Many early yachts were converted fishing vessels, and the low stern remained as a feature, for no good reason. I incorporated a high stern into the design of Tystie for the deep comfortable cockpit. However, I found it to make very little difference to the behaviour at anchor, which is much more affected by the windage of a mast in a forward position.

    Last modified: 16 Aug 2021 08:24 | Anonymous member
  • 16 Aug 2021 00:19
    Reply # 10933447 on 10922294

    In looking at pictures of traditional Chinese Junks I always puzzled over the enlarged poop deck.  That much windage astern did not make much sense to me.  

    In light of this thread, perhaps that windage astern made laying off an anchor off the bow more steady?

  • 15 Aug 2021 09:31
    Reply # 10932521 on 10922294
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Wow, Howard, you surely take worst case thinking seriously!

    Nowadays, when everyone have a video camera at hand, and are connected to the web, every spectacular weather situation will soon end up on TV or YouTube (together with all other sorts of mishaps and disasters). I think this has had a negative effect on us.

    I live on the lee coast of the Atlantic Ocean. It can be windy there from time to time, but storm or hurricane force winds are still quite rare. That is, storm force winds may hit somewhere on the longish coast of Norway several times a year, but only on small areas, and only for a short while each time. The thing is that videos from damage will be distributed  -  flying barn roofs, a blown-over bus or a stranded boat look good on TV.

    Weather forecast services these days are much more accurate than thirty years ago. By checking the met before a weekend cruise, one can be pretty well protected against winds above F6 or F7.

    Even a full-time cruiser like Annie Hill no doubt uses the services from the Met to stay out of serious trouble (..in addition to having serious anchoring gear...)

    Perfectly safe sailing and anchoring do not exist, but we are able to improve the odds if we take care.
    It may well end well.

    Cheers,
    Arne


    Last modified: 16 Aug 2021 10:08 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Aug 2021 23:19
    Reply # 10931912 on 10922294

    The stern anchor article was a good one.........The issues with stern anchoring in an anchorage with everybody else anchoring off the bow are not insignificant. It's a better way to anchor in many conditions for many reasons, not the least being ventilation via the companionway.  Clearly it is better in a major storm....... or would be except for the companionway and large cockpit common to most yachts.  The open transom was probably actually an asset in the example ........ water draining out of the cockpit virtually instantly when pooped.   But taking water via the companionway and lockers is a real issue in a major storm or hurricane.  It would be fine for something like Mingming II or a center cockpit yacht in those conditions, but sliders and drop boards are notoriously  leaky.   In general the bows are best suited to taking storm waves, so there is a conflict here.  It is never simple is it   ;-)

  • 13 Aug 2021 09:30
    Reply # 10928811 on 10922294

    This is an important point to consider, Arne. Thinking of how most boats lie in a wind vs tide situation, with the rode lying at an extreme angle to the bow, normally, I would hate to be in a situation where half of a stern bridle got caught the wrong side of a spade rudder, in a blow.

    After reading about stern anchoring, (which as far as I remember Jordan was really recommending for use in extremis, in a hurricane) I tried it with Tystie in a fresh breeze. It was horrible. Waves slapping against the transom, filling the cockpit with spray. The rudder not at all happy. I didn't try it again.

    With a boat that is too inclined to sheer about at anchor, I'd try something dragging in the water at the bow or stern. A strong builder's bucket for example. Weaverbird is inclined to get a rope anchor rode caught behind a keel in wind vs tide situations, and in deep anchorages where my 30m of chain is not enough, and some rope rode is out as well, I've got into the habit of rigging a kellet, a 6kg kettlebell with a snaphook attached and a light line to keep it at a depth just below the keels. Maybe this would help.


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