Timely Utube Dinghy Design Video (Wellsford)

  • 11 Apr 2021 21:49
    Reply # 10299953 on 10299727
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    H.W. wrote:

     I like it.....    The vertical battens are a great innovation for gaining sail area while retaining the simplicity.... You don't get the safety factor of instant dump like a junk rig, but the lack of a boom and the ability to easily wrap the entire sail around the mast, and to easily reef to basically any sail area is a plus.


    One more thing, Howard:

    I could let the sheet fly in any wind direction and let the sail fly like a flag while reefing it, so at least I could avoid that dunking...

    Arne (at 59 degrees N.)


    Last modified: 11 Apr 2021 21:56 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 11 Apr 2021 20:48
    Reply # 10299777 on 10295674
    Graeme wrote:

    Howard, I think the reason why dinghy designers such as Welsford (and Bolger) have tended to avoid the junk rig is because in its normal form it is a very inconvenient rig for a dinghy. Its complicated, and best suited to a moored vessel where (after the usual preliminary fiddling and untangling) it can be left set up permanently, ready for instant deployment.

    Most dinghy designers seem to have slavishly followed the bermudan rig which also does not sit small dinghies particularly well, although a single triangular sail can be, at least, simple.. The simplest rigs (sprit rig and the various Western lug rigs) seem to be better than a junk rig, because of their simplicity, and also it is desirable to be able to fit the spars inside the length of a small boat. The sprit rig is best, in my opinion, because it requires the shortest spars for a given amount of sail area. Welsford, Bolger and others have had the imagination to revive these early, simple rigs.

    The junk rig is complicated. Like the old windjammers, complexity is the price you generally pay to have a rig which can be managed with the minimum of manpower.

    There have been a few small dinghies equipped with a junk rig but so far no-one has produced a junk especially designed to be quick and simple to dismantle and set up, which has to be done more or less every time one gets the dinghy out to go for a sail. No-one, that is, until Arne recently produced his Halibut rig in response to the recent JRA dinghy design competition. It looks as though this new rig is going to be step forward in the evolution of a small, convenient junk rig for dinghies and if it proves to be so, it will be of great value, because the simple rigs all share one disadvantage in that they can not so easily adjust sail area quickly in response to changing conditions. A little boat can be easily overwhelmed in a sudden change in wind conditions and it would be wonderful to be able to enjoy the advantage of a simple junk rig: the ability to reduce or remove sail area almost instantly when needed, with no fuss, flapping canvas etc.

    Some good points from Graeme. I am a big fan of the junk rig, having owned and sailed 'Footprints' for 12 years. When we built the new junk sail it was quite complicated to set up, and took some months to sort out. However since then has required almost no maintenance or tweaking for 9 years now. On a cruising yacht of that size, 10 meters, the junk rig made wonderful sense for its ease of use and effectiveness. After I sold 'Footprints' I owned a reasonably high performance bermudan rigged monohull for 18 months. I did not really enjoy the rig, and found myself wishing for the simplicity of my previous junk rig.

    As some will know when building my current 6 meter cruising catamaran I really wanted to use a junk rig, but for a variety of reasons this did not work out. Instead I designed and fitted a modified bermudan gaff rig with a high aspect gaff main, and a small self tacking headsail on a furler. That rig has now proven so easy to use, and effective for the boat, that there is no reason to have a junk rig on this catamaran. I did utilise as much of my junk rig knowledge and experience in designing this rig as possible and have kept everything very low tech and simple, even to the point of making my own jib furler. I do however certainly hope to own a junk rig yacht again sometime in the future.

    Likewise with dinghy sailing rigs. It would be fun to experiment with a junk rig on a dinghy provided the rig can be kept simple and light weight, and easy to stow on the mother ship. I would see this as needing to be in a simple bundle where mast sail, and spars are all preconnected and ready to be stepped. Otherwise I note that many traditional tenders are designed for a simple lug rig, as Graeme has pointed out, and this makes for a very effective tender rig.

    Last modified: 11 Apr 2021 21:37 | Anonymous member
  • 11 Apr 2021 20:02
    Reply # 10299727 on 10296162
    Anonymous wrote:

    Now, that I think of it; that Poor Man’s Ljungtröm Rig is also a candidate as an unpretentious and easily reefed sail for a small boat. I surely liked it.
    Must sleep on it...zzz...

    Cheers and Goodnight,
    Arne


     I like it.....    The vertical battens are a great innovation for gaining sail area while retaining the simplicity.... You don't get the safety factor of instant dump like a junk rig, but the lack of a boom and the ability to easily wrap the entire sail around the mast, and to easily reef to basically any sail area is a plus.


  • 11 Apr 2021 17:07
    Reply # 10299355 on 10295674
    Anonymous wrote:it would be wonderful to be able to enjoy the advantage of a simple junk rig: the ability to reduce or remove sail area almost instantly when needed, with no fuss, flapping canvas etc.

     Graham:

        Good points all.....(pardon my major snip)...... the last line really hits the nail on the head though.   The reason a junk rig would be pretty ideal on a dinghy is the fact that you could just dump the halyard and virtually instantly eliminate your sail area.    The Wellsford designs that are most appealing are not "tender class" dinghies, being too heavy and large... which is why I didn't inject this into that thread.   The attractiveness of not fully capsizing, and being very easy for a cold wet sailor who just took an inadvertent salt water ducking cannot be under estimated, but the attractiveness of NOT taking that dunking is far more attractive, and that is what something like the junk rig offers.   Being able to dump the sail almost instantly offers that potential.   I like to stay out of the water.... at least where I live (the water is COLD).   


                                            H.W.

  • 10 Apr 2021 23:58
    Reply # 10296162 on 10291278
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Now, that I think of it; that Poor Man’s Ljungtröm Rig is also a candidate as an unpretentious and easily reefed sail for a small boat. I surely liked it.
    Must sleep on it...zzz...

    Cheers and Goodnight,
    Arne


  • 10 Apr 2021 20:56
    Reply # 10295674 on 10291278

    Howard, I think the reason why dinghy designers such as Welsford (and Bolger) have tended to avoid the junk rig is because in its normal form it is a very inconvenient rig for a dinghy. Its complicated, and best suited to a moored vessel where (after the usual preliminary fiddling and untangling) it can be left set up permanently, ready for instant deployment.

    Most dinghy designers seem to have slavishly followed the bermudan rig which also does not sit small dinghies particularly well, although a single triangular sail can be, at least, simple.. The simplest rigs (sprit rig and the various Western lug rigs) seem to be better than a junk rig, because of their simplicity, and also it is desirable to be able to fit the spars inside the length of a small boat. The sprit rig is best, in my opinion, because it requires the shortest spars for a given amount of sail area. Welsford, Bolger and others have had the imagination to revive these early, simple rigs.

    The junk rig is complicated. Like the old windjammers, complexity is the price you generally pay to have a rig which can be managed with the minimum of manpower.

    There have been a few small dinghies equipped with a junk rig but so far no-one has produced a junk especially designed to be quick and simple to dismantle and set up, which has to be done more or less every time one gets the dinghy out to go for a sail. No-one, that is, until Arne recently produced his Halibut rig in response to the recent JRA dinghy design competition. It looks as though this new rig is going to be step forward in the evolution of a small, convenient junk rig for dinghies and if it proves to be so, it will be of great value, because the simple rigs all share one disadvantage in that they can not so easily adjust sail area quickly in response to changing conditions. A little boat can be easily overwhelmed in a sudden change in wind conditions and it would be wonderful to be able to enjoy the advantage of a simple junk rig: the ability to reduce or remove sail area almost instantly when needed, with no fuss, flapping canvas etc.

    Last modified: 11 Apr 2021 12:11 | Anonymous member
  • 09 Apr 2021 15:33
    Message # 10291278

    Wellsford Interview



    Rather than inject this into the dinghy design contest thread, I decided to post this separately.    Roger Barnes of the Dinghy Cruising Association did a great video interview of John Wellsford, a  renowned dinghy designer from NZ.  In it Wellsford described his design process and criteria, and thoughts about hull design, safety, comfort, rig, etc in some detail over almost 2 hours!   He expressed his definition of "performance", which exactly matches my own, which is how well the craft is suited for it's intended mission.   That mission of course varies.   I've always held this view.  I consider my Subaru Outback car "high performance".  Far higher than a Lamborgini, because it does a far better job of meeting my needs in every way.   It takes care of me on icy and snow covered roads, carries a good payload, and has adequate room for me to camp in when I'm traveling in remote places, and it is simple to work on and maintain.    I'd like a boat to meet my quite similar criteria.

         Of most interest to me in his dinghy designs was the fact that they were designed to be easy and practical to both sail and row, very difficult to capsize, and would not capsize totally as the masts were designed to float, and the boats were designed to be rolled back upright easily by one person in the water bringing a minimal amount of water aboard when righting, and could be sailed quite well without even bailing.  The most attractive designs for dinghy cruising (obviously not tenders) had a small cuddy which also contributed to flotation and righting.   His rigs tended to be well foreward and aft  for good rowing clearance.... his favorite being the balanced lug rig with a yawl mizzen.   I've always loved the look of the yawl.... probably from being a pilot ;-), but it has a very practical purpose  in at multiple respects.   He uses an offset centerboard to keep the center of the boat clear for camping, etc.  

           I've been disappointed that the dinghy cruisers do not seem to progress beyond the balanced lug to the junk rig.  I've yet to see a DCA cruiser with a junk rig....... Would someone please put some battens in their dinghy lug rig so we can see at least one junk dinghy cruising the French or English coastline please.....  Wouldn't this look lovely with a junk rig!


                                               H.W.


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