I don't think it is off the topic Howard - after all, you are talking about a tender. And "out of left field" ideas can sometimes bounce around quite nicely. Its a clever idea - but it does seem to me a bit like a solution looking for a problem.

A tender is a load carrier in its own right - so most likely it will be a bit beamy and stability under sail shouldn't  generally be a problem, I would have thought. It doesn't need more stability, what it needs is more waterline length, and I don't know how you would get that. Attaching an outrigger to a stumpy little tender might just kill its already meagre prospects dead, as a sail boat.

Talking about something else, maybe something longer and lacking stability, might be a better application for your idea (though I think I would want to keep the oars out of the equation, they might be needed and it would be inconvenient to have to dismantle your new proa in order to negotiate a calm patch. Dual purposing is great - sometimes - which is why I am impressed but not yet quite convinced about David's thwart/off-centreboard idea - or Arne's thwart-cum-fish gutting board (but that might have been a bit of humour)).

I saw a skinny little trailer boat in Tauranga (Katikati river) a couple of weeks ago - it might have been a little keeler with the keel lopped off, anyway the owner had busted up an old hobie catamaran and stuck one half of it on each side, with a reasonable little deck structure and hey presto - a trimaran. I should have taken a photo of it. That seemed sensible enough.

David T: for me, the definition of a superyacht start somewhat smaller than that, but as I have rarely sailed anything bigger than 35 feet, I reckon that may be due to personal experience! 

I suspect that the original size limit was put in place to avoid scarf joints in standard sheets of plywood, for both simplicity and to make it seem simple enough for people with fewer skills to have a go, or to be able to build a rough version in very short order.  Perhaps someone who was involved in those initial discussion will jump in and add more, but as the prototype build will be undertaken by a group of unskilled 12-14 year olds as a 'service' activity to support the JRA, simplicity of build will still be a desirable virtue.

Graeme - thank you for splitting the discussion.  That is a good move, but I don't see any reason for you to apologise.  Apart from the fact that the topic of dinghies and tenders is similar to discussions about cooking with gas on boats - 25% logic, 25% personal experience and 50% emotion - with a corresponding lack of 'correct' answers, the forum postings in this topic are a good conversation that went sideways a bit.  The original concept was definitely tending to towards a tender, but the idea of a junket boat is interesting.  Perhaps there is a future design competition in that - a junket boat/camping dinghy or similar.

However, someone else would have to step up for the prototype build of that one.  We will use a basement room at school to put the boat together.  A colleague and I just experimented with a bench and we reckon that anything much more than 11' would be impossible to get out in one piece!

Lastly, as well as the concepts on this forum, there are a couple of entries on my email (which I have purposefully not looked at yet) and a couple more statements of intent, so I am still looking forward to seeing them all and sharing them on the website.

Best wishes to you all and good drawing to our designers,

Mark

David D wrote:

But what started as a competition to design a junk rigged 8 foot tender has morphed into something else entirely which I'm not quite sure where it is going.

I think it has morphed into a discussion about what the design criteria should be, including some quite strong arguments against the committee’s stated criteria. Which is a little unfortunate.

I feel sorry for my part in confusing the issue.

Lets start again.

• 1.    The design competition has so far, produced two concept proposals which are close to the committee’s stated criteria: Arne’s 5-plank Halibut with leeboard, and David T’s 3-plank model with off-centreboards and buoyancy tanks.

Both designers have expressed misgivings about the committee’s requirement of 8' , but have never-the-less made a positive contribution.

• 2.    An alternative line of thought has converged, with the suggestion that a larger boat might also be worth considering.
• 3.    The length restriction has been relaxed – but it still has to be suitable for a tender.

So far so good.

In fairness to the committee, who represent and speak for the wider membership, (which the forum contributors generally do not) I think any further discussion about alternative concepts should be shifted to another thread, otherwise Annie is right, it really is throwing cold water on the committee’s dinghy design competition.

All discussion of “junket boats” and other quite different proposals now risk crippling this thread.

I feel sorry to see that happen, and I am going to edit some of my waffle out of this thread now, and transfer my alternative suggestions to a new thread – “Junket Boat”.

By “Junket Boat” I mean something around 4m, which is too big for a tender and therefore does not belong to this thread.

I invite David W, David D and others to do the same. There is no reason why two threads should in any way be seen as competing with each other – its just a different topic, that’s all.

This thread should remain open for David and Arne to progress their concept designs, if they want to, and I hope they will. And I hope there will be some other contenders too.

A sailing tender is a great idea, and if someone can make a seriously portable junk rig to suit one, then a real advance will have been made and the prize will be well-deserved. In my opinion the real challenge is going to be in the rig, rather than the hull, and I am going to leave it there.

(PS I love that little piece from Jan)

Well, that has struck up more - and more heated - discussion than I expected!

I do not think the committee will object if I unilaterally relax the length requirement and say that all designs will be considered, so long as they also meet the requirement of being useable as a tender to something less than a superyacht.

However, I do not think the idea or specification should be summarily dismissed. As several people have commented, there are no shortage of dinghy designs available.  Adding one more to the mix and making it available to members on the website will do no harm.  Although I was not on the committee when the original spec was written I think such a design could, for example:

1. Provide a member who fancies building a boat with a chance to try it out on a small and simple scale.
2. A design with a JR could easily be built with a simpler standing lug (and possibly that is a more logical choice), but may give some members an opportunity to experiment with making their own sails, or to try out their own ideas for sailmaking.
3. If the design is simple enough, it could provide a solution to a cruising member who needs a quick knockabout dinghy when their inflatable catches a bad case of sharp rocks.
4. Through any or all of the above, provide members with just the impetus and confidence needed to take on a larger and more ambitious project.
5. And of course it has already generated some good healthy discussion.

Making information available on the website gives members an opportunity to play, adapt and try out their own ideas based on a concept that is freely available, much as the junk rig community has been doing for years. There is already a wide range of opinions and information on the forums about dinghies in our community - adding one or more potential designs to the mix is an extension of those discussions, as is this forum topic!

I am enjoying some of the discussion here and looking forward to examining some of the ideas that are generated, and then having a go at building one.

Mark

There is no shortage of ideas, good to see the discussion. 

I accidentally came across this small site with many relevant links

http://www.tackingoutrigger.com/rowboat3.html