Benford Badger sister ship for sale Sea of Cortez Mex.

<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
  • 11 Apr 2019 21:45
    Message # 7278467
  • 12 Apr 2019 16:52
    Reply # 7279540 on 7278467

    Well, that caught my attention.  I'm already chatting with the seller.

    Someone in the know tell me what is involved in buying a boat on the east coast of Baha and shipping it to the east coast of New England.  What are the pitfalls beyond the normal boat-buying things. 

    Is this a big deal in terms of customs/taxes/import?  Am I just looking at shipping charges?


    Last modified: 12 Apr 2019 20:15 | Anonymous member
  • 14 Apr 2019 00:18
    Reply # 7281202 on 7278467

    My Guess is the boat is - like a lot of boats on the Sea of Cortes -is  US owned and  US registered so that part of the problem is likely a non-issue. Shipping is another matter. The boat could be sailed up to Puerto Ponasco and hauled and loaded there which is just a short ways from the boarder. it shouldn't be too difficult to get a a qoute  for transport to any point in the US. Another thought would be tp just have it trucked in Mexico over to the east coast at Brownsville Tx. luanch there and take the !CW. to wherever.

  • 14 Apr 2019 17:59
    Reply # 7281741 on 7278467

    There is a company or two that make their money shipping boats back up from Mexico for those Californians that made their way down there, and want to avoid the long bash to windward to get the boats back.  I might check into that - then figure a way to get it across country.

  • 14 Apr 2019 18:20
    Reply # 7281785 on 7278467

    Having talked with the seller/owner/builder a bit, I'm seriously considering this boat.  I do have a few concerns, though, and I know this community is pretty knowledgeable with direct experience of Jay Benford's designs.

    1)  The boat has the low draft keel and flat sails, the and the owner admits that it just doesn't go to windward.  He just uses the motor whenever he has to go upwind.  I really don't like motors.  How much of this can be remedied with cambered sails and modifications below the waterline?  Rudder improvement?  If it's doable and beneficial enough, I'm not even against swapping the keel for the fin version.

    2) He built the hull, deck, and cabinetry with keruing plywood, which is almost twice as dense as okoume.  The boat weighs 20,000 - 22,000 lbs on the travel lift.  Benford's site says that  this version, the 37.5 foot one,  should be 13,425 in "cruising trim", which includes full fuel and water. That's a tremendous difference. How concerning is this?  

    I'd appreciate any thoughts the collective has about these concerns, plus any tips on Benford Dory-specific things I should look out for when/if I go look at it.  Are there common mistakes a builder makes on these, or design changes that might not have been incorporated?

    Last modified: 14 Apr 2019 18:24 | Anonymous member
  • 14 Apr 2019 20:29
    Reply # 7281904 on 7278467

    I'm not too worried about the weight. 10 tons and 31 ft LWL gives a D/L ratio of 335, which is just about right for a comfortable cruiser. But you do need enough power to push it through the water, or the keel will stall and you go sideways. I think it would need new sails with 10% camber. I'm not worried about the keel, either. There's plenty of area, and shoal draught has advantages for a go-anywhere cruiser that's going to poke its nose into all sorts of shallow creeks.

    It does seem to be over-built and over-equipped. 220 gallons of liquids adds up to a ton. I'd only want about half of that. There are plenty of gadgets that I could happily do without, too. I'd sell them off and raise the waterline by an inch or two.

    I think I'd want to add an end plate to the rudder.

    But all in all, it's a lot of boat and equipment for the money, if it's sound.

  • 14 Apr 2019 22:17
    Reply # 7282028 on 7281785
    Scott wrote:

    Having talked with the seller/owner/builder a bit, I'm seriously considering this boat.  I do have a few concerns, though, and I know this community is pretty knowledgeable with direct experience of Jay Benford's designs.

    1)  The boat has the low draft keel and flat sails, the and the owner admits that it just doesn't go to windward.  He just uses the motor whenever he has to go upwind.  I really don't like motors.  How much of this can be remedied with cambered sails and modifications below the waterline?  Rudder improvement?  If it's doable and beneficial enough, I'm not even against swapping the keel for the fin version.

    2) He built the hull, deck, and cabinetry with keruing plywood, which is almost twice as dense as okoume.  The boat weighs 20,000 - 22,000 lbs on the travel lift.  Benford's site says that  this version, the 37.5 foot one,  should be 13,425 in "cruising trim", which includes full fuel and water. That's a tremendous difference. How concerning is this?  

    I'd appreciate any thoughts the collective has about these concerns, plus any tips on Benford Dory-specific things I should look out for when/if I go look at it.  Are there common mistakes a builder makes on these, or design changes that might not have been incorporated?

    1) Alan (Zebedee) and I were talking about this boat last night.  Zeb has 4ft 1in draught, so that fits in with the shoal draught of this boat and, indeed, the boats are very similar underwater.  Since fitting cambered sails and rebuilding the rudder, Zebedee goes like a train.  We did, after all, win the Tall Ships this year.  However, he will never compare with a Swan 36 or something of that ilk, going to windward.  Don't forget that the dory hull is a very simple form and can never perform like a boat whose hull and rig have been optimised for windward sailing.  So, if I were to buy the boat, I would most certainly borrow Alan's sail plans (suitably enlarged) and rudder design.  You could always add extra draught if you really felt it necessary, at a later date.  I would still say that the rudder we put on Badger was better, but Benford doesn't show it in his plans.  With this draught, I'd fit endplates, too.

    2) Benford, like most designers, woefully underestimates how heavy his boats will  end up in reality.  Keruing is certainly heavy stuff, and of course Benford thought that the boat would be built in standard USAnian pine plywood.  But Badger was supposedly well overweight, too, and sailed just fine.  You certainly don't need to carry anywhere near the diesel that this boat has on board, particularly if you are reluctant to use an engine.  From the photos it looks over-complex to me, considering what the ethos of these dories is.  As David says, remove some of this complexity and flog it off.  I'd pull out the shore power stuff, too - wire is heavy!

    The major difference between Badger and Zebedee is that the former was much more carefully epoxied inside and out.  To do the job properly is a slow and painstaking job, difficult to justify in a professional environment, if building to a price.  As far as I know, Badger has never had any issues with rot, although any wooden boat that gets little use is likely to deteriorate, however carefully built.  Alan has had to deal with some rot.  So if you want to pursue this boat, I would suggest poking around very carefully in the darkest recesses.  The good news is that plywood is easy to work on.

    Dare I ask what has happened to the Pearson?

  • 14 Apr 2019 23:17
    Reply # 7282060 on 7278467

    Hi Scott,

    yes the Keruing plywood is heavier but it is twice as strong as the Douglas fir and also much more rot resistant and dimensionally stable. She looks like a good boat. As Annie says end plates on the rudder improve things immensley, also reworking the bottom of the keel to the design Henry Scheel patented works wonders with windward performance. I did this with Arcadian when I reduced her draft from 7 foot 4 inches to 5 foot 10 inches and she was actually faster and better to windward after the change.

    All the best, David.

  • 15 Apr 2019 16:00
    Reply # 7283131 on 7278467

    This is why I love this community.  Where else can someone get this kind of advice, this well informed, and this quickly?  Y'all are really some of the best people.

    I had expected David Tyler to say that extra weight on the deck was an unforgivable sin. With both Annie and David agreeing that it's not a big deal, what I thought was a deal breaker goes back into the category of merely a tick against.  I also agree that the boat has a fair bit more than I'd prefer; systems have mass and require maintenance. 

    I contacted Jay Benford and he was impressively prompt getting back to me - on a Sunday, no less.  He does think that it's a lot of extra weight, and has offered to provide a stability test protocol for when/if I visit the boat.  I will take him up on it, if it gets that far.

    Rudder upgrade and cambered sails are something I can sink my teeth into. If I do buy the boat, they will be priorities.  If I still can't live with the performance, I may go toward David Webb's project of keel rework.  But rudder plates first, camber second.  Got it.

    The boat was built in Montana, launched in Oregon, and cruised up and down the North American coast. It's been on the hard in the desert for 12 years - life and a reluctant first mate.  I believe its in the water now having been sailed for a bit last fall.  It looks like I may be flying out to Baja in a few weeks to have a look.  Given the desert environment, I suspect I won't find rot - but I'll still take a moisture meter and flathead screw driver.  

    Annie, nothing has happened to the Pearson. Yet.  But when I see a boat like this one available for less than it would take me to finish mine, that I've run out of steam for the project and it's become a burden rather than a joy... I must look closely.  There is, of course, the power of the sunk cost fallacy - and find it always whispering in my ear.  I'm working hard to keep my internal economist at the helm.

  • 15 Apr 2019 17:44
    Reply # 7283329 on 7283131
    Scott wrote:

    I had expected David Tyler to say that extra weight on the deck was an unforgivable sin. With both Annie and David agreeing that it's not a big deal, what I thought was a deal breaker goes back into the category of merely a tick against.  I also agree that the boat has a fair bit more than I'd prefer; systems have mass and require maintenance. 

    I contacted Jay Benford and he was impressively prompt getting back to me - on a Sunday, no less.  He does think that it's a lot of extra weight, and has offered to provide a stability test protocol for when/if I visit the boat.  I will take him up on it, if it gets that far.


    I only say that the total weight is OK. I can have no knowledge of the distribution of that weight, and testing stability is going to be important - since the deck is rather heavy, the ballast would have to have been increased to compensate and keep the CG low. I wonder whether she won't go to windward because she won't stand up to her canvas?
<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software