What do you think of this one.

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  • 07 Mar 2020 10:33
    Reply # 8807438 on 8786097
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Andrew.
    It depends on your needs, your skills and how deep pockets you have. As a home and a movable work platform, she could be great. The air-cond. may not be needed much if you use the ventilation tricks that Annie mention.

    Rust:
    First of all, she must be sound. If there is a rust issue, she will soon turn into a maintenance nightmare, so be sure she is good.

    Those bilge-keels:
    They appear to rob a lot of speed. In case your cruising will not call for them, cut them off about 20cm from the hull. The stubs will help as roll dampers and the cutting job will not ruin the paintwork on the inside of the hull. Removing these bilge keels will probably do more to performance (= fuel saving) than any other fixes.

    Rig:
    If I were to take on that ship, I would first try her with the existing rig. Most probably, I would find the (flat?) sails to under-perform. Since making new sails is so easy, I would make a pair of new Johanna-style sails. This time I would go for maximum camber, say 12% in the foresail and 10% in the main. I would not make the sails larger initially, but I would make them with only six, or even five panels. Later, I could install taller masts (quite an undertaking), and add one or two panels to the existing sails.
    This should move the boat up from today’s 70/30 motorsailer to a 50/50 or even better.
    Don’t expect to reach anything near the SA/Disp. ratio of smaller boats, say over 18. In Stavanger there is a 49’ ferrocement yacht, Samson, displacing 23 metric tons and with a sail area of just 107sqm. This results in a SA/disp. of only 13.5,  or 4.7sqm/ton.
    Samson still performs amazingly well, as she has demonstrated during junkets we had in Stavanger between 2004 and 2010.

    Rudder:
    Unless the steering response already is good with the engine shut off, I would fit an endplate of generous size to the bottom of the rudder, ASAP.

    Arne

     


    Last modified: 11 Mar 2020 13:31 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 07 Mar 2020 08:40
    Reply # 8807360 on 8807336

    Gary Pick wrote:

    Yacht comes from the German word for hunter I believe. 

    not exactly, but almost…

    'yacht' is the english version of the dutch word 'jacht' which means a fast ship 'just for pleasure'.

    …and in german, the 'jagd' is based on the same dutch word and means the fast chase (coursing, chivvy – the fast hunt 'just for pleasure'…)

    ueli


  • 07 Mar 2020 07:55
    Reply # 8807336 on 8797148
    Anonymous wrote:

    Thanks Annie, thanks Graham,  

    Annie, air con is not my motivation in life. The boat is set up for thirsty living powerwise. Its prob more a house boat, than yacht for sure. I looked up the word yacht, and by memory it was a norweigen word pronounced yach not yot, and was a fast small boat to service tall ships or large boats, basically a run around before tinnies came along. 

    Yes, generally, artsist are not rich, but im working on it, psst wanna buy a painting...

    if it sailed well id be keen for the space, but I suspect graham is right, its a bus in the slow lane. Maybe if you increased sail area to maximun, put on a folding prop and got rid of bilge keel she might be passable?

    Maybe its another negative. Or maybe i should take up yodeling amd have no need for space and gear and the eternal problems of art!

    there is something zen about normal people who live in apartments and minimally. 


    Yacht comes from the German word for hunter I believe. 
  • 05 Mar 2020 21:54
    Reply # 8799557 on 8786097

    Andrew, I have an Australian artist friend, Nick Young, whose boat is his studio. It is the 18m gaff schooner, Ishmael, (aboard which I sailed from NZ to Tahiti in 1980).  When Nick is working, the saloon becomes his studio.  He has a sleeping cabin aft and galley fwd, to which he can retreat when he needs a break, but the saloon is pretty busy.  I could not see it working for him in the average 10m boat.  Ishmael is a real artist's boat, rakishly beautiful.  You can check out both the boat and Nick's work if you Google Nick Young, artist, or schooner Ishmael.

  • 05 Mar 2020 03:00
    Reply # 8797148 on 8786097
    Deleted user

    Thanks Annie, thanks Graham,  

    Annie, air con is not my motivation in life. The boat is set up for thirsty living powerwise. Its prob more a house boat, than yacht for sure. I looked up the word yacht, and by memory it was a norweigen word pronounced yach not yot, and was a fast small boat to service tall ships or large boats, basically a run around before tinnies came along. 

    Yes, generally, artsist are not rich, but im working on it, psst wanna buy a painting...

    if it sailed well id be keen for the space, but I suspect graham is right, its a bus in the slow lane. Maybe if you increased sail area to maximun, put on a folding prop and got rid of bilge keel she might be passable?

    Maybe its another negative. Or maybe i should take up yodeling amd have no need for space and gear and the eternal problems of art!

    there is something zen about normal people who live in apartments and minimally. 


  • 04 Mar 2020 22:07
    Reply # 8796018 on 8793238
    David Webb wrote:
    With my 50 ft boat Arcadian, which weighed 17 tons, I set 1200 square feet of sail, about 70 square feet per ton. This was OK but a bit under canvassed in light airs. This would have improved a bit if I had set cambered sails, but I did not get around to that. I would suggest for the boat you are considering 1500 square feet would be a good 

    Ps wow, do you have photos? 

    It says 21 tons displacment on ad, is that the same as the ships weight? 

    Andrew, look in the latest issue (#82) of the JRA magazine and you will find some photos of Arcadian under sail.  I hesitate to give my opinion on boats since we all have different perspectives, but that Roberts is mostly a motorboat, sail assisted.  The best motorsailers could be called 50/50 types, this boat is a 70/30 in favour of the engine.  You could put the biggest rig you liked on it and I doubt you'd get it to sail well.  For what it is worth, my ideal larger boat would have moderate beam and displacement, a decent keel, junk schooner rig with plenty of sail area, and a smallish diesel engine, with long-range fuel tanks so I could motor through the doldrums etc.
  • 04 Mar 2020 20:09
    Reply # 8795811 on 8786097

    Andrew: as an artist, I would assume that you are not particularly wealthy.  Running air-conditioning on a boat is a very different thing from running it in a house (and both are environmentally damaging).  You will need to run a generator, to run the air-con.  The generator will heat the boat, so the air con will need even more power.  The constantly-running generator will also annoy your neighbours and, I suspect, yourself.

    Most people who use air-con on boats are based in marinas and use shore power.  Marinas are expensive.  However, people have been sailing pleasure boats in the Tropics for over a century and they have managed to keep their boats cool by using awnings and wind scoops. This is a cheaper, quieter, greener and at the end of the day, a more practical solution to keeping comfortable.

    If you use the Google Search function on the Members' Area Page, you will find lots about tabernacles.

    It's a shame you weren't looking for a boat when Arcadian was for sale: I think she might have suited you! 

    It's not easy to find the right boat, but it's worth persevering.  There are also two points worth remembering.  It's OK to insult people with a ridiculous offer on their boat.  If it's over-priced they may remember you were interested when no-one else is.  And don't forget the old saying that 'all boats are for sale'.  It costs nothing to ask someone if they want to sell, if you see a boat that you like.

    Good luck!

  • 04 Mar 2020 10:23
    Reply # 8793238 on 8793041
    Deleted user
    With my 50 ft boat Arcadian, which weighed 17 tons, I set 1200 square feet of sail, about 70 square feet per ton. This was OK but a bit under canvassed in light airs. This would have improved a bit if I had set cambered sails, but I did not get around to that. I would suggest for the boat you are considering 1500 square feet would be a good 

    Ps wow, do you have photos? 

    It says 21 tons displacment on ad, is that the same as the ships weight? 

  • 04 Mar 2020 10:16
    Reply # 8793206 on 8793041
    Deleted user
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hi Andrew,

    comparing boats I find that the sail area required is based more on displacement than anything else. In smaller sized boats I find that 100 square feet per ton is adequate, maybe a bit more if going for light weather performance. With my 50 ft boat Arcadian, which weighed 17 tons, I set 1200 square feet of sail, about 70 square feet per ton. This was OK but a bit under canvassed in light airs. This would have improved a bit if I had set cambered sails, but I did not get around to that. I would suggest for the boat you are considering 1500 square feet would be a good starting place. In order to get this sail area set you would need much longer masts and you would also need to put more canvas towards the stern as the present sail plan has quite a forward emphasis. This may affect the balance when the wind gets up, but this can be handled by reefing the aft sail first, and then more deeply than the foresail when further reducing sail. It all depends what the balance is like at the moment.

    All the best, David.

    Thanks very much for reply David, I have looked all over for this info. I really do appreaciate your input. This is hard won knowledge. 

    would you consider extending existing poles, or starting again?

    has anyone made tabernacles for junk rigs?


  • 04 Mar 2020 06:55
    Reply # 8793041 on 8786097

    Hi Andrew,

    comparing boats I find that the sail area required is based more on displacement than anything else. In smaller sized boats I find that 100 square feet per ton is adequate, maybe a bit more if going for light weather performance. With my 50 ft boat Arcadian, which weighed 17 tons, I set 1200 square feet of sail, about 70 square feet per ton. This was OK but a bit under canvassed in light airs. This would have improved a bit if I had set cambered sails, but I did not get around to that. I would suggest for the boat you are considering 1500 square feet would be a good starting place. In order to get this sail area set you would need much longer masts and you would also need to put more canvas towards the stern as the present sail plan has quite a forward emphasis. This may affect the balance when the wind gets up, but this can be handled by reefing the aft sail first, and then more deeply than the foresail when further reducing sail. It all depends what the balance is like at the moment.

    All the best, David.

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