Cambered Panels and the Split Junk Rig.

  • 21 Mar 2012 19:18
    Reply # 865156 on 856059
    Roy, Thanks, Easy!  Jonathan
  • 21 Mar 2012 18:47
    Reply # 865132 on 856059
    Deleted user

    Jonathan,

    Click Mark's name to go to his profile, then scan down to the bottom, where you will find the drawings.

    Roy.

  • 21 Mar 2012 18:03
    Reply # 865073 on 856059
    Mark or Anybody Else, Could you please signpost for me the route to your drawing at "members directory photo album".  Thanks.  jds
  • 21 Mar 2012 13:53
    Reply # 864886 on 856059

    I realise that the problem with the wishbone - sleeved split rig is that the clew outhaul tension would not allow the sail to drop.  The possible solution is to attach the mast to the wishbone by at a cross member behind the mast.  The cross member held to the mast with a line (with parrel beads), the line taken through blocks and brought down as a down haul.  When the halliard is released, this realeases tension on the downhaul, and thus on the line around the mast. 

    If it works, it would  also allow some adjustment to fullness of the sail by easing the downhaul.

    I have done a sketch,  posted in members directory photo album.  Looks like it would a real pointy-rig beater.

    Last modified: 21 Mar 2012 14:02 | Anonymous member
  • 20 Mar 2012 23:40
    Reply # 864460 on 856059
    In due course. As I hear more, you'll hear.
    Last modified: 20 Mar 2012 23:41 | Anonymous member
  • 20 Mar 2012 23:38
    Reply # 864458 on 856059

    Slieve.  Many thanks for all that.  May we ask about the new split rig happy bunny, ie who, what why, where, how and when, or do we wait for all to be revealed in due course?  Jonathan

  • 20 Mar 2012 22:32
    Reply # 864424 on 856059

    Hi Jonathan,

    You mentioned the AYRS Catalyst 37 article on Poppy and asked about reprinting it. It was mostly a copy of material that had already been printed in the JRA Newsletters so there is little point in putting repeat information there. There is a performance/ point of sail breakdown of the rig in it, so I’ve got the ‘go ahead’ from AYRS to place it in my pages in the Public Pages section of this site.

    I’ve also slightly updated the Split Rig write up, but it’s still very much a draft document, and will take time. Also, I’ve just heard about a 30 foot boat which had its first sail with a new split rig today, and the owner is a very happy bunny. I’ll hear more in due course.

    Cheers, Slieve.

  • 18 Mar 2012 18:15
    Reply # 862255 on 856059

    Many tahnks for comments, a further thought,

    If the battens where wishbones,  a sleeved sail would be no problem.  Infact it becomes a 'normal' sail, that is not connected to the wishbone along its length, so very simple to make and control shape.

    How the jiblets would work, I am not sure.  (when I finally stop thinking and start building,  a split rig has to be the one,  if only so I can have a sail with jiblets!!)

    Cheers

    Mark

     

    Last modified: 18 Mar 2012 18:18 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Mar 2012 19:42
    Reply # 859983 on 859692
    Mark Thomasson wrote:

    Making the jiblets adds complexity, how much more time involved over a 'standard' cambered sail?  I guess you gain something back on the simplified running rigging.

    Performance wise, how much better do you think it is?

    If I ever get around to going junk, my preference is for a wing sail, as David & Bertrant.  How would you think the split rig would compare?


    Mark,

    If you are worried about the time required and the complexity of the split rig, don't even think of a softwing. Both time required and complexity are quite a few orders of magnitude greater in the softwing as compared to Sleeves split rig.
    Last modified: 15 Mar 2012 19:44 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Mar 2012 15:55
    Reply # 859792 on 856059

    Hi Mark

    You wrote –

    Thanks for your excellent and very detailed description of your split rig.” Thank you for your nice comments. I’ll be happier when the missing chapters have been added and the diagrams and photos upgraded.

    “Have you ever had chance to sail along side a Bermudan rigged Longbow?” No, not yet though I plan to do so one day. The problem is that it is never as easy as it seems as you need to have equally clean bottoms and similar propellers, as well as comparable aged sails, etc. I’m not worried as I’ve now sailed against enough similar performance cruising boats with known ratings/ handicaps to be able to make a good comparison. I’m not a betting man but if we could get a genuine Longbow with a roller headsail at about half life then I would be happy to take a little flutter. My big question would not be close hauled, but would we win on the broad reach/ run when he had a full racing spinnaker up?

    “Making the jiblets adds complexity, how much more time involved over a 'standard' cambered sail?” That depends! In the write up I’m trying to show that it can be quite quick to build cambered panels, and if the jibs are all the same then it may about 25% longer, but as with building a boat, the hull is the easy bit and it is the fitting out that takes the real time. Finishing the sail can be slow or fast, depending on the methods you use. With no metal in the sail and a quick sewing machinist then the little extra time is well worth it for the real gain in performance and easy balanced sailing.

    “Performance wise, how much better do you think it is?” I’ve written a point by point description in an AYRS Catalyst article which I hope to post on my pages soon.

    “My preference is for a wing sail,” This is a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question. Bertrand is using it on a cat that has a wide dynamic range, and may gain some advantage, but it is noticeable that David is now building another junk rig. David’s rig did not have the high peaked yard which I believe helps with induced drag so I to would be interested to know which was better. I’m convinced that the split rig would give better ‘bangs per buck’. If you are worried about the time and effort for building the jibs, then think again about the complaxity of the wingsail.

    “Wharram uses a very efficient sail sleeved around the mast-” Any wrap round system has friction, which you don’t want. Why make life complicated when you can KISS?

    “Would short battens help the jiblets?” You are pre-empting me here. I have considered this, but probably not in the way you and others are thinking, but so far I’m happy with the simple shaping, (which is my fourth experiment). If anyone really wants to consider serious racing for publicity then I will look at it.

    I hope this helps,   Cheers,  Slieve

    Last modified: 15 Mar 2012 16:23 | Anonymous member
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