Badger dinghy

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  • 15 Jan 2020 18:28
    Reply # 8582783 on 8528518

    For a "life dinghy", I've toyed with the idea of a single outrigger.... Perhaps two or 3 inflatable rollers as are used on the sides of the Woods dinghy, with the oars lashed to the gunnels and extending outward to the outrigger......... Perhaps an inflatable kayak...   This would allow additional living space if fabric was stretched across, which would be a big deal in a life boat situation.  The addition of a  meter or so "platform" outboard on one side could make the experience much more tolerable, not to mention  improving the sailing ability either in the Pacific or Atlantic Proa configuration..... depending on the tack.  Pacific would be more desirable, but in all likelihood you would not be doing a lot of tacking, so it could be set on the optimal side for the tack when sailing.  The ability to hike out would make survival on a tiny boat in a big ocean far more comfortable, than the narrow confines of a dinghy in almost every respect from just being able to sit on the fabric "deck" with your feet inside to lounging & nappinig, to such mundane things as answering nature's call (something nobody writes about in survival at sea stories). 


                                                           H.W.

  • 14 Jan 2020 20:55
    Reply # 8573531 on 8528518

    I have decided on a "box boat" as they affectionately refer to Bolger dinghies as.

    Starting with Tortoise as a base, are there any mods to be recommended to make the boat more seaworthy/ useful (higher freeboard/ covered foredeck/ floatation etc)?

    There is a Bolger Brick that is a foot wider and 1.5 feet longer and a lot more freeboard.  I wonder if shortening that under 7 feet would be a better boat?  The "internet" says it sails a lot better.  And it would be a better "lifeboat".

    Looking forward to getting building.


    Sadly the boat isn't trucked here yet so I can't answer these questions directly myself.

    thanks,

    David.

  • 14 Jan 2020 16:48
    Reply # 8571359 on 8567509
    Anonymous wrote:
    Howard wrote:


          I like the concept of the "life dinghy" like the Portland Pudgie, as an alternative to the so called "life raft"............. "death raft" is a more appropriate  name unless help  is fairly close by....... which for most of us  it is..... unless you happen to be a "real" adventurer... as a number of members here are or have been at times.   The gradual deterioriation of these so called "life rafts" is a major feature of every survival story involving them it seems.   The idea of designing a ply dinghy that could provide the needed shelter and resources for survival...... and be able to make progress under a sail is intriguing.


                                                    H.W.

    I did build a 'life dinghy' once, and had it approved as part of a New Zealand Category 1 inspection and clearance. But silly me, I built it to meet the Cat 1 requirements for a life dinghy which definitely compromised it's usefulness as an actual tender. I do know of someone whose liferaft started falling apart after just a few hours. But I also know of people who have survived for a very long time in a liferaft. I am also thinking of the tragic situation off the New Zealand coast a few months ago where a yacht sank and one person died because in the experienced conditions the liferaft was apparently swept away before they could get into it. Launching a life dinghy in this situation could be even worse.

    I personally am starting to question the whole traditional approach to rescue and survival in these situations. By way of explanation I set off recently to purchase a set of flares for my current yacht as we had none, and you should always carry flares - right? On the way to the marine store I began thinking about the many hundreds of dollars worth of flares I have purchased, and eventually had to dispose of, during my long sailing career, and had a think about how many people have actually signaled for help and been rescued as a result of using flares in recent times, probably not many. There is better technology out there. So rather than purchasing flares I bought a good EPIRB with a 10 year battery life. Yes it was twice the price of the coastal flare pack I was going to purchase, but it has a ten year shelf life instead of three, and if I get into trouble and need to activate the EPIRB our NZ Rescue Center will know very quickly that I am in trouble, they will know which boat is involved, and they will know very precisely exactly where I am 


     David:

          I agree that deploying and boarding a life dinghy in extreme conditions could be a challenge, and making a dinghy that could be used as a life dinghy, and still be a viable tender presents a really serious challenge.  Size, and the various features that make it tenable for survival , which add up to extra weight and bulk, are a problem.  This could perhaps be addressed with an add on section that contained things like a weather cover, and emergency supplies.  This would be detached in port when used as a tender, but connected while at sea.  Size is an issue for  stowage....... Instead of a canister that can be instantly deployed, you have a bulky dinghy on deck, or perhaps better in davits.   My interest is in multihulls, and of course a catamaran would be the ideal for slinging a life dinghy.   In t he past open boats were used as lifeboats with some success.   look at people like Shackleton of Bligh, and numerous others who made heroic crossings in tiny boats.... But the boats were carried on relatively large ships, not small sailboats.   Making an unsinkable dinghy is pretty simple.... just some sealed compartments.... The Duo I posted the photo has them by design.  At 3m x 1m, it would be rather difficult to store in one piece on a small sailboat, and the challenge of assembling an launching it in life threatening conditions would be pretty overwhelming.  Davits really are the only realistic option for a life dinghy as far as I'm concerned.   This makes the life dinghy discussion just idle chat in most cases.    Roger Taylor's unsinkable MM2 is probably the best survival choice for a small boat, though I doubt he would survive long in a flooded boat where he sails!  There was (is?) a company called Yacht Saver or something like that that was making air bags to be deployed inside a boat for this purpose.

         I don't know if you've read the saga of the Rose Noell, but that describes a rather impressive survival story in an inverted trimaran for a very  long time.  

         I agree with you about Epirbs......... with the single exception of the fact that flares have been used defensively against amateur pirates. 


                                                      H.W.


  • 14 Jan 2020 07:33
    Reply # 8567509 on 8560803
    Howard wrote:


          I like the concept of the "life dinghy" like the Portland Pudgie, as an alternative to the so called "life raft"............. "death raft" is a more appropriate  name unless help  is fairly close by....... which for most of us  it is..... unless you happen to be a "real" adventurer... as a number of members here are or have been at times.   The gradual deterioriation of these so called "life rafts" is a major feature of every survival story involving them it seems.   The idea of designing a ply dinghy that could provide the needed shelter and resources for survival...... and be able to make progress under a sail is intriguing.


                                                    H.W.

    I did build a 'life dinghy' once, and had it approved as part of a New Zealand Category 1 inspection and clearance. But silly me, I built it to meet the Cat 1 requirements for a life dinghy which definitely compromised it's usefulness as an actual tender. I do know of someone whose liferaft started falling apart after just a few hours. But I also know of people who have survived for a very long time in a liferaft. I am also thinking of the tragic situation off the New Zealand coast a few months ago where a yacht sank and one person died because in the experienced conditions the liferaft was apparently swept away before they could get into it. Launching a life dinghy in this situation could be even worse.

    I personally am starting to question the whole traditional approach to rescue and survival in these situations. By way of explanation I set off recently to purchase a set of flares for my current yacht as we had none, and you should always carry flares - right? On the way to the marine store I began thinking about the many hundreds of dollars worth of flares I have purchased, and eventually had to dispose of, during my long sailing career, and had a think about how many people have actually signaled for help and been rescued as a result of using flares in recent times, probably not many. There is better technology out there. So rather than purchasing flares I bought a good EPIRB with a 10 year battery life. Yes it was twice the price of the coastal flare pack I was going to purchase, but it has a ten year shelf life instead of three, and if I get into trouble and need to activate the EPIRB our NZ Rescue Center will know very quickly that I am in trouble, they will know which boat is involved, and they will know very precisely exactly where I am 

  • 13 Jan 2020 19:24
    Reply # 8562517 on 8558256
    David wrote:I had a look at John's 'Scraps' dinghy, it seems to be only for 1 person.  My Elegant Punt  was very easy to build was so light that manhandling it was not an issue, it rowed easily, and being flat bottomed was a good load carrier. But speaking of covetable - in the end it got stolen. Someone must have had good taste!!
    Unfortunately, the photos he shows of 'Scraps' are in fact the 5ft dinghy he sold to me.  He didn't actually build the 6ft version because Marcus and I built one for Paul Thompson.  I thought I had some photos of it, but can't find them.  But Paul loved the dinghy and there was plenty of room for two or more. Unfortunately, it got wiped out in a land slide at Shelly Bay.
  • 13 Jan 2020 15:20
    Reply # 8560803 on 8528518

    It makes sense in many ways  except space... to have a plywood dinghy.   Rowability, and reduced probability of theft are two big ones.  Problem is where to put a rigid dinghy in a small sailboat.   A number of designs are nesting two piece units... which makes sense to me.  Richard Woods Designs offers the 8' Crayfish pram, that can be rowed, motored, or sailed, and is a nice practical fat design for interior space.  The pram bow allows a decent amount of space for length.  It is built from 2 1/2 sheets of 4mm ply, with an estimated weight of only 40 lbs... stitch and glue construction.    His larger duo 3M length 1M beam is designed to be cut in two pieces and nest at only 1.65M length,  and likewise can be sailed rowed, or motored.   Inflatable rollers can be attached as buoyancy tubes & bumpers, and provide a bit more margin when sailing.  

        A nice RIB or fancy painted up plywood dinghy is a natural target for thieves, especially with a nice outboard.   I'd rather have a rather ratty beat up appearing dinghy... a "sleeper" so to speak, preferably painted up distinctively, and perhaps with some very distinctive / unmistakable from a distance features.  It doesn't seem to be a good idea to have the boat's name on the dinghy......... signaling that you are not aboard at the moment.  Dinghy theft seems to be a common issue in many places...

          I like the concept of the "life dinghy" like the Portland Pudgie, as an alternative to the so called "life raft"............. "death raft" is a more appropriate  name unless help  is fairly close by....... which for most of us  it is..... unless you happen to be a "real" adventurer... as a number of members here are or have been at times.   The gradual deterioriation of these so called "life rafts" is a major feature of every survival story involving them it seems.   The idea of designing a ply dinghy that could provide the needed shelter and resources for survival...... and be able to make progress under a sail is intriguing.


                                                    H.W.

    1 file
    Last modified: 13 Jan 2020 15:23 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Jan 2020 08:01
    Reply # 8558256 on 8554254
    Annie Hill wrote:

    I am not a fan of rubber ducks: expensive, short-lived, covetable (which seems to show that people who steal have really bad taste!), result in wet backsides and miserable to row.

    I'd like to give a shout out for John Welsford's Scraps, which is a very burdensome 6ft 3in dinghy, handsome, light and rows well.  JW is a genius when it comes to designing dinghies.

    Having experienced an 'Elegant Punt', I would rate all the above as much better.

    Well now, having owned a few rubber ducks I have to say they have their place. My previous 2.7m Aakron with the inflatable floor and keel was robust, (for 7 years), a very good work horse when cruising, safe, a good load carrier, dry even in rougher sea conditions, at least as much as any small dinghy, and rowed Ok once I had replaced the play oars supplied with the dinghy with some proper wooden oars, and I could get it on board myself, and launch it without needing to resort to any kind of lifting device. But Annie is right in the short lived comment, after 7 years plastic fittings began separating from the dinghy fabric. when I queried this with the dinghy supplier I was told that 7 years was the expected lifespan of the dinghy. Really!? So now I go and spend another $1200?? Anyway I managed to glue things back together with some quite expensive special glue. Three decades ago when I was doing my Pacific cruising I had a plywood floor, inflatable keel Avon dinghy. That was an excellent work horse for a family of four over a five year period doing very well everything expected of a cruising dinghy. That dinghy was already well used when I inherited it and I had five years of trouble free service from it. But I expect that those older British built dinghies were a much better product than the current breed of Chinese made inflatables.

    So it probably comes down to an analysis of what is required from a dinghy in terms of load carrying ability, storage space onboard, ease of getting onboard, number of people or other loads to be carried, amount of money to be spent, is it to be rowed or propelled by an outboard, and longevity required. Although I have a 2hp Yamaha outboard I use it infrequently because I much prefer to row.

    I had a look at John's 'Scraps' dinghy, it seems to be only for 1 person.  My Elegant Punt  was very easy to build was so light that manhandling it was not an issue, it rowed easily, and being flat bottomed was a good load carrier. But speaking of covetable - in the end it got stolen. Someone must have had good taste!!

    Last modified: 13 Jan 2020 08:53 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Jan 2020 01:41
    Reply # 8556053 on 8528518

    Hi David,

    I have a design for a 10 foot nesting dinghy that might meet the criteria you have set for a tender to your Badger. You can find it in the Members area/your files/drawings/david webbs designs/10 foot nesting dinghy. I have posted the complete drawing which you can use if you decide to build, no charge and no liability, you use the plan at your own discretion.

    Any comments would be welcome as I have not had time to build one yet, I will try to get one built later this year.

    The basic hull is made from two sheets of 6 mm plywood with some 12 mm for the take apart bulkheads. It should be fairly easy to assemble in the water as the stern section can easily support a person.

    All the best with the search and the project, David.

  • 12 Jan 2020 22:28
    Reply # 8555002 on 8528518

    Thanks Annie, you are confirming what I thought.  While I covet a shortened Nymph, for now a Tortoise will do until it needs replacing.  I can have that finished before the boat arrives by truck.  The tortoise really is the land rover of tenders.....and once again I know it fits from Badger and Zebedee.


    I appreciate your reply.

  • 12 Jan 2020 20:23
    Reply # 8554254 on 8528518

    I am not a fan of rubber ducks: expensive, short-lived, covetable (which seems to show that people who steal have really bad taste!), result in wet backsides and miserable to row.

    The Bolger 'Tortoise' is light, stable, a fantastic load carrier and can get you from A to B without too much effort.  Don't worry that it's no good in strong winds, David, it's what we had in the Falkland Islands. Not pretty and does tend to be wet going into a chop.

    The Bolger 'Nymph' is light.  I would regard her as stable but those used to rubber ducks seem to think otherwise.  A good load carrier, fun to row and you can add a genuine sailing rig, which is nice.  Drier than the 'Tortoise' and we had no problems getting her on and off Badger.  I can't recall now, but I rather think we lowered her in bows first and rarely got any water in her.  A long fore and aft seat enable two rowing positions so that she is nicely trimmed with one or two people.  At a squeeze a third one can be fitted forward of the rower.

    I'd like to give a shout out for John Welsford's Scraps, which is a very burdensome 6ft 3in dinghy, handsome, light and rows well.  JW is a genius when it comes to designing dinghies.

    Having experienced an 'Elegant Punt', I would rate all the above as much better.

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