Badger dinghy

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  • 20 Jan 2020 23:48
    Reply # 8634459 on 8629030
    Anonymous wrote:
    Anonymous wrote:I built a "box boat" to my own design, many years ago. It was palindromic, so that it didn't matter which way you tried to sit in it and propel it. It was 3ft 3in wide, which is the right beam for one of these boats - 6ft 6in oars are a very convenient length for a tender. The length was 7ft 9in if I remember correctly, to make full use of a sheet of plywood. I think it had the longitudinal seat of the Tortoise.
    I built a "box boat" to my own design, many years ago. It was palindromic, so that it didn't matter which way you tried to sit in it and propel it. It was 3ft 3in wide, which is the right beam for one of these boats - 6ft 6in oars are a very convenient length for a tender. The length was 7ft 9in if I remember correctly, to make full use of a sheet of plywood. I think it had the longitudinal seat of the Tortoise.

    I built a "box boat" to my own design, many years ago. It was palindromic, so that it didn't matter which way you tried to sit in it and propel it. It was 3ft 3in wide, which is the right beam for one of these boats - 6ft 6in oars are a very convenient length for a tender. The length was 7ft 9in if I remember correctly, to make full use of a sheet of plywood. I think it had the longitudinal seat of the Tortoise.

    It was a terrible boat. Not much use as a rowing boat, or sailing boat. Better as a tender, because it would carry a load and it didn't matter where you stood in it. Finally sold on eBay for a few ££ to someone who needed something that would get from one side of a canal to the other.

    Give me a boat-shaped boat any day. There are plenty of nicely shaped prams about. The "persuaded ply" dinghy that I made for Tystie is the best plywood dinghy I've owned, but too big for Badger at 9ft LOA x 3ft 7in beam.


    That's funny David.  Sadly the Badger foredeck only allows a 6.5 foot and a bit long dinghy so lads tied and don't want deck cargo on cabin top to increase windage and obstruct visibility.


    Some great arguments for and against on this form.  The biggest gem for me was from whoever said human nature will mean a nesting boat will not be used as much because we are lazy.  Hard to disagree.


    Thanks.








    I built a nesting dinghy and then discovered it was impossible to assemble or disassemble on deck. So I've glued it together. 
  • 20 Jan 2020 21:07
    Reply # 8633331 on 8620983
    Jan wrote:I can't imagine having a big enough boat to have room for a solid tender though! 
    We squeezed a Tortoise across the foredeck of our Westcoaster (the precursor of your Westerly 22), when we sailed her across the Channel.  She did have junk rig, of course.
  • 20 Jan 2020 13:22
    Reply # 8629030 on 8627076
    Anonymous wrote:I built a "box boat" to my own design, many years ago. It was palindromic, so that it didn't matter which way you tried to sit in it and propel it. It was 3ft 3in wide, which is the right beam for one of these boats - 6ft 6in oars are a very convenient length for a tender. The length was 7ft 9in if I remember correctly, to make full use of a sheet of plywood. I think it had the longitudinal seat of the Tortoise.
    I built a "box boat" to my own design, many years ago. It was palindromic, so that it didn't matter which way you tried to sit in it and propel it. It was 3ft 3in wide, which is the right beam for one of these boats - 6ft 6in oars are a very convenient length for a tender. The length was 7ft 9in if I remember correctly, to make full use of a sheet of plywood. I think it had the longitudinal seat of the Tortoise.

    I built a "box boat" to my own design, many years ago. It was palindromic, so that it didn't matter which way you tried to sit in it and propel it. It was 3ft 3in wide, which is the right beam for one of these boats - 6ft 6in oars are a very convenient length for a tender. The length was 7ft 9in if I remember correctly, to make full use of a sheet of plywood. I think it had the longitudinal seat of the Tortoise.

    It was a terrible boat. Not much use as a rowing boat, or sailing boat. Better as a tender, because it would carry a load and it didn't matter where you stood in it. Finally sold on eBay for a few ££ to someone who needed something that would get from one side of a canal to the other.

    Give me a boat-shaped boat any day. There are plenty of nicely shaped prams about. The "persuaded ply" dinghy that I made for Tystie is the best plywood dinghy I've owned, but too big for Badger at 9ft LOA x 3ft 7in beam.


    That's funny David.  Sadly the Badger foredeck only allows a 6.5 foot and a bit long dinghy so lads tied and don't want deck cargo on cabin top to increase windage and obstruct visibility.


    Some great arguments for and against on this form.  The biggest gem for me was from whoever said human nature will mean a nesting boat will not be used as much because we are lazy.  Hard to disagree.


    Thanks.








  • 20 Jan 2020 08:20
    Reply # 8627076 on 8573531
    David D wrote:

    I have decided on a "box boat" as they affectionately refer to Bolger dinghies as.

    Starting with Tortoise as a base, are there any mods to be recommended to make the boat more seaworthy/ useful (higher freeboard/ covered foredeck/ floatation etc)?

    There is a Bolger Brick that is a foot wider and 1.5 feet longer and a lot more freeboard.  I wonder if shortening that under 7 feet would be a better boat?  The "internet" says it sails a lot better.  And it would be a better "lifeboat".

    Looking forward to getting building.

    Sadly the boat isn't trucked here yet so I can't answer these questions directly myself.

    thanks,

    David.

    I built a "box boat" to my own design, many years ago. It was palindromic, so that it didn't matter which way you tried to sit in it and propel it. It was 3ft 3in wide, which is the right beam for one of these boats - 6ft 6in oars are a very convenient length for a tender. The length was 7ft 9in if I remember correctly, to make full use of a sheet of plywood. I think it had the longitudinal seat of the Tortoise.

    It was a terrible boat. Not much use as a rowing boat, or sailing boat. Better as a tender, because it would carry a load and it didn't matter where you stood in it. Finally sold on eBay for a few ££ to someone who needed something that would get from one side of a canal to the other.

    Give me a boat-shaped boat any day. There are plenty of nicely shaped prams about. The "persuaded ply" dinghy that I made for Tystie is the best plywood dinghy I've owned, but too big for Badger at 9ft LOA x 3ft 7in beam.

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  • 20 Jan 2020 03:38
    Reply # 8626007 on 8528518

    A friend of mine has a Bolger Brick and it certainly looks like a lot more dinghy than the Tortoise, which I have also seen in operation.  That means it would sail better, of course, and row better.  Nothing like size to improve performance.  Harder to get on and off the deck, however.  And if you shorten it to 7' then who knows how it will perform?  The Tortoise does not need more beam in my opinion, though the more decked-in buoyancy you can give it the better it will be as a lifeboat.  Add a couple of buoyancy tubes to the sides when you are sailing in open waters, fit it with a folding canopy and a sea anchor, and it may be better than an inflatable liferaft.  But you have to give a lot of thought to getting it off the deck quickly (where it will be lashed down on passage).  

  • 20 Jan 2020 00:44
    Reply # 8625035 on 8573531
    Anonymous wrote:

    I have decided on a "box boat" as they affectionately refer to Bolger dinghies as.

    Starting with Tortoise as a base, are there any mods to be recommended to make the boat more seaworthy/ useful (higher freeboard/ covered foredeck/ floatation etc)?

    There is a Bolger Brick that is a foot wider and 1.5 feet longer and a lot more freeboard.  I wonder if shortening that under 7 feet would be a better boat?  The "internet" says it sails a lot better.  And it would be a better "lifeboat".

    Looking forward to getting building.


    Sadly the boat isn't trucked here yet so I can't answer these questions directly myself.

    thanks,

    David.


    I have from time to time seriously thought of building one as well. They strike me as being very stable.
  • 19 Jan 2020 16:46
    Reply # 8620983 on 8528518

    I'd like to second the suggestions for using an inflatable kayak. We bought a two-person Itiwit inflatable kayak from Decathlon (https://www.decathlon.co.uk/inflatable-2-seat-kayak-green-id_8387561.html) last summer as a tender for our Westerly 22. We thought it would just do but were very pleasantly surprised with it. Built much better than we expected, the inflatable seats keep your bum dry, you can carry a fair bit of gear, if you use two part paddles and just use one end each like a canadian canoe you don't even get any water aboard. The inflation pump is rubbish but overall, any little niggles are out-weighed by the neat stowage on the boat and ease of deployment. We used it during a week's cruise in Bantry Bay and found it very versatile. How long it lasts remains to be seen but it's a very affordable option. 

    Someone expressed concern about the sinkability of a ply tender, there are pram designs that have a flotation-chamber pillion seat running lengthwise rather than athwarts which youu can adjust your centre of gravity on to some extent. And we have a fairly delapidated Toad Pram (precursor of Barrow-Boats I think? By Malcolm Goodwin) which has bouyancy built in yet still has ample carrying capacity and is terrifically sea-worthy, I can't imagine having a big enough boat to have room for a solid tender though! 

  • 15 Jan 2020 18:28
    Reply # 8582783 on 8528518

    For a "life dinghy", I've toyed with the idea of a single outrigger.... Perhaps two or 3 inflatable rollers as are used on the sides of the Woods dinghy, with the oars lashed to the gunnels and extending outward to the outrigger......... Perhaps an inflatable kayak...   This would allow additional living space if fabric was stretched across, which would be a big deal in a life boat situation.  The addition of a  meter or so "platform" outboard on one side could make the experience much more tolerable, not to mention  improving the sailing ability either in the Pacific or Atlantic Proa configuration..... depending on the tack.  Pacific would be more desirable, but in all likelihood you would not be doing a lot of tacking, so it could be set on the optimal side for the tack when sailing.  The ability to hike out would make survival on a tiny boat in a big ocean far more comfortable, than the narrow confines of a dinghy in almost every respect from just being able to sit on the fabric "deck" with your feet inside to lounging & nappinig, to such mundane things as answering nature's call (something nobody writes about in survival at sea stories). 


                                                           H.W.

  • 14 Jan 2020 20:55
    Reply # 8573531 on 8528518

    I have decided on a "box boat" as they affectionately refer to Bolger dinghies as.

    Starting with Tortoise as a base, are there any mods to be recommended to make the boat more seaworthy/ useful (higher freeboard/ covered foredeck/ floatation etc)?

    There is a Bolger Brick that is a foot wider and 1.5 feet longer and a lot more freeboard.  I wonder if shortening that under 7 feet would be a better boat?  The "internet" says it sails a lot better.  And it would be a better "lifeboat".

    Looking forward to getting building.


    Sadly the boat isn't trucked here yet so I can't answer these questions directly myself.

    thanks,

    David.

  • 14 Jan 2020 16:48
    Reply # 8571359 on 8567509
    Anonymous wrote:
    Howard wrote:


          I like the concept of the "life dinghy" like the Portland Pudgie, as an alternative to the so called "life raft"............. "death raft" is a more appropriate  name unless help  is fairly close by....... which for most of us  it is..... unless you happen to be a "real" adventurer... as a number of members here are or have been at times.   The gradual deterioriation of these so called "life rafts" is a major feature of every survival story involving them it seems.   The idea of designing a ply dinghy that could provide the needed shelter and resources for survival...... and be able to make progress under a sail is intriguing.


                                                    H.W.

    I did build a 'life dinghy' once, and had it approved as part of a New Zealand Category 1 inspection and clearance. But silly me, I built it to meet the Cat 1 requirements for a life dinghy which definitely compromised it's usefulness as an actual tender. I do know of someone whose liferaft started falling apart after just a few hours. But I also know of people who have survived for a very long time in a liferaft. I am also thinking of the tragic situation off the New Zealand coast a few months ago where a yacht sank and one person died because in the experienced conditions the liferaft was apparently swept away before they could get into it. Launching a life dinghy in this situation could be even worse.

    I personally am starting to question the whole traditional approach to rescue and survival in these situations. By way of explanation I set off recently to purchase a set of flares for my current yacht as we had none, and you should always carry flares - right? On the way to the marine store I began thinking about the many hundreds of dollars worth of flares I have purchased, and eventually had to dispose of, during my long sailing career, and had a think about how many people have actually signaled for help and been rescued as a result of using flares in recent times, probably not many. There is better technology out there. So rather than purchasing flares I bought a good EPIRB with a 10 year battery life. Yes it was twice the price of the coastal flare pack I was going to purchase, but it has a ten year shelf life instead of three, and if I get into trouble and need to activate the EPIRB our NZ Rescue Center will know very quickly that I am in trouble, they will know which boat is involved, and they will know very precisely exactly where I am 


     David:

          I agree that deploying and boarding a life dinghy in extreme conditions could be a challenge, and making a dinghy that could be used as a life dinghy, and still be a viable tender presents a really serious challenge.  Size, and the various features that make it tenable for survival , which add up to extra weight and bulk, are a problem.  This could perhaps be addressed with an add on section that contained things like a weather cover, and emergency supplies.  This would be detached in port when used as a tender, but connected while at sea.  Size is an issue for  stowage....... Instead of a canister that can be instantly deployed, you have a bulky dinghy on deck, or perhaps better in davits.   My interest is in multihulls, and of course a catamaran would be the ideal for slinging a life dinghy.   In t he past open boats were used as lifeboats with some success.   look at people like Shackleton of Bligh, and numerous others who made heroic crossings in tiny boats.... But the boats were carried on relatively large ships, not small sailboats.   Making an unsinkable dinghy is pretty simple.... just some sealed compartments.... The Duo I posted the photo has them by design.  At 3m x 1m, it would be rather difficult to store in one piece on a small sailboat, and the challenge of assembling an launching it in life threatening conditions would be pretty overwhelming.  Davits really are the only realistic option for a life dinghy as far as I'm concerned.   This makes the life dinghy discussion just idle chat in most cases.    Roger Taylor's unsinkable MM2 is probably the best survival choice for a small boat, though I doubt he would survive long in a flooded boat where he sails!  There was (is?) a company called Yacht Saver or something like that that was making air bags to be deployed inside a boat for this purpose.

         I don't know if you've read the saga of the Rose Noell, but that describes a rather impressive survival story in an inverted trimaran for a very  long time.  

         I agree with you about Epirbs......... with the single exception of the fact that flares have been used defensively against amateur pirates. 


                                                      H.W.


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