Darren Bos wrote:

Graham Cox wrote:

As for recovery of a JSD, some people seem to have mastered this.  Pete Hill often deployed his JSD on Oryx, and took in a few feet each time the boat was in the trough and the line slackened.  The first time he had to do this singlehanded, after leaving Durban for Mauritius in 2015, he got into some difficulties because he did not have a convenient cleat aft to belay the line. Before that, he had hauled in the slack and Carly had secured the tail on a cleat further forward.  Once he sorted that out, he managed to retrieve it alone without a problem. It took him about half an hour.  Noel Dilly, who was one of the first to use a JSD on his Twister 28, in a F10 north of the Azores, used a similar technique. 

I suppose I'll just have to give it a try.  I do think there may be a bit of a scaling effect going on.  Many of the folks who are really keen about the JSD seem to be on smaller boats, and thus have fewer cones in the JSD.  I looked at one article where the Dashew's managed to overload their aft electric windlass retrieving the JSD.  The Dashew's aren't exactly known for putting undersized hardware on their boats.  At 40' and 12 tons, I wonder if the appropriate JSD for my boat is pushing the limits for a standard human power unit.  As you pointed out, it is better to be clever than strong.  I do have an extra manual windlass lying around....  Thanks for the data.  Do you know what kind of cleat Pete used, it would seem like a clam cleat would be great if you could keep the line in it.

Yes, scale almost certainly comes into it.  Bigger boats mean bigger loads all round.  I remember being astounded by the sheet loads when I first sailed a 50ft yacht.  On an 80ft schooner I sailed on, the ship was run like a military operation.  Every procedure was strictly detailed, had a team assigned and a team leader.  You had to know the written procedure by heart, and would get a bollocking if you didn't follow them.  This probably applies even more to recovering a JSD, which is awkward at best.  I don't think a clam cleat could be engineered strong enough.  You need a big, solidly attached cleat with large horns, to allow you to take a quick turn.  Piddly little cleats are a menace.  Use one side of the horns as a fairlead, then whip on a figure of eight turn the instant the load begins to increase.  You will only get a few feet each time the boat is in the trough.  And mind your fingers!  I remember Pete saying you had to be quick to take a turn or you'd lose the lot again.  I don't remember what sort of cleat Pete used.  The first time he tried it alone, realising he didn't have a cleat aft where he was hauling, he took a turn around the base of his davits and snapped the davit off.  And Oryx is a light boat!    You could email him specific questions, I am sure he'd be happy to advise.

David Tyler wrote:

Graham makes a good point about being able to skew the drogue over to one side. I'd consider having a third line made fast to the apex of the bridle (which would help with the first stage of recovery), with its inner end belayed on a cleat. It could be used to shorten the bridle on either side, and if it did chafe through, all would not be lost, you'd be back to a symmetrical bridle.

Brilliant idea, David, giving you adjustment and extra security.  If it is strong enough it will save the drogue if one side of the bridle chafes through as well. 

Add to this perhaps a mesh drogue or something similar, on a separate warp, for when you want to keep moving along at a few knots, slowly jogging downwind.

As for recovery of a JSD, some people seem to have mastered this.  Pete Hill often deployed his JSD on Oryx, and took in a few feet each time the boat was in the trough and the line slackened.  The first time he had to do this singlehanded, after leaving Durban for Mauritius in 2015, he got into some difficulties because he did not have a convenient cleat aft to belay the line. Before that, he had hauled in the slack and Carly had secured the tail on a cleat further forward.  Once he sorted that out, he managed to retrieve it alone without a problem. It took him about half an hour.  Noel Dilly, who was one of the first to use a JSD on his Twister 28, in a F10 north of the Azores, used a similar technique. 

Darren Bos wrote:

David Tyler wrote:Raises the question: why do you want to adjust the length of the rode?

I have that feeling I'm in over my head.....  Because folks who sell drogues and write books about storm tactics tell me that it is important to position the drogue so that it is: A: a full wavelength behind you, or B: on the same wave as you, but on the backside of the wave.  My completely inexperienced understanding is that you don't want it half a wavelength behind because this provides the perfect opportunity to create slack and then shock load the rode.  With the multiplicity of cones in a JSD, this is not a problem, but with one or even a few drag elements it seems like it would need attention???  Awaiting application of experience and wisdom.

Sorry, I was assuming that the drogue was a JSD (either with 100+ small cones or 10+ large cones), when it should be in the order of a wavelength long, in a gale. Yes, for a single drogue, the length should be adjustable, as you say.

Graham makes a good point about being able to skew the drogue over to one side. I'd consider having a third line made fast to the apex of the bridle (which would help with the first stage of recovery), with its inner end belayed on a cleat. It could be used to shorten the bridle on either side, and if it did chafe through, all would not be lost, you'd be back to a symmetrical bridle.

Darren Bos wrote:

David Tyler wrote:Raises the question: why do you want to adjust the length of the rode?

I have that feeling I'm in over my head.....  Because folks who sell drogues and write books about storm tactics tell me that it is important to position the drogue so that it is: A: a full wavelength behind you, or B: on the same wave as you, but on the backside of the wave.  My completely inexperienced understanding is that you don't want it half a wavelength behind because this provides the perfect opportunity to create slack and then shock load the rode.  With the multiplicity of cones in a JSD, this is not a problem, but with one or even a few drag elements it seems like it would need attention???  Awaiting application of experience and wisdom.

Darren, most folk don't adjust their JSD bridles, which is why they can shackle them to chainplates, and the boat lies stern to the wind.  With other drag devices, you may want to vary the length of the leader depending on the fetch of the waves.  But there is another aspect to this issue.  By adjusting one side of the bridle, you can control the angle to which the boat lies to the drogue.  A case can be made for adjusting one side of a JSD bridle as well.  Roger Taylor found himself in just this position when he deployed his JSD south of Greenland in 2010.  There was a cross sea running, which slammed into Mingming on the beam, threatening the boat with structural damage.  He chose to pull the drogue in and run off under bare poles and self-steering gear.  Eventually the boat broached and was knocked down, and Roger broke a rib.  If he could have adjusted his bridle so he took each wave train on the quarter, he may have been better off.

Chafe is a problem with adjustable bridles, and will need to be monitored, necessitating nasty trips into the cockpit.   A second drogue is not overkill.  That is what saved Mingming when she lost her first JSD in a previous storm.  Every option has its relative merits.  Of course, you could always avoid the high latitudes. That's my preferred storm tactic.  In the tropical tradewinds, during the right season, the wind rarely gets over 35 knots.

Darren Bos wrote:

I welded reinforced tabs in place for this purpose while refitting Leeway.  However, you can't adjust the length of the rode if you do this.  So, how do you create a chafe-proof lead that also allows you to adjust the length of the rode?  

Raises the question: why do you want to adjust the length of the rode?