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peregrine's rig?

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  • 22 Nov 2011 18:27
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    Reply # 757053 on 754983
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Tuesday

    Hi Mark.

    Finding the best rig for a given hull is both easy and difficult. It is easy because most boats will move about in a fashion whatever rig you fit, but difficult if you are aiming for the best performance as a combination of speed, handling, safety and economy.

    On the 20th. November David T wrote here:

    "...The sail should be built with cambered panels, for sure, to get sufficient drive. The planform of Peregrine's sail, based on the well-tested Hasler/McCleod design principles, is easy to understand and to make, for your first venture into junk rig, and if made with deeply cambered panels, up to 10% camber, will work well. But if you are able to put in a little more work into the understanding and building of a fanned planform sail, I feel that it would pay dividends...."

    Of course I agree with what David says about camber. I have experienced the same. However, I’m sceptical to the hint that the fanned sail is an improvement over a fully cambered HM style sail (except for looks if you prefer them). So far I haven’t seen any evidence that the fanned sail has proven to be better with respect to speed and handling. When David participated with his Tystie in the first JR rally in Stavanger, in 2004 (light winds, F2-F3), Tystie was not performing that well. I won’t compare her against my light and generously rigged Johanna. Instead I will focus on Samson. Samson is a 49’ schooner (a stretched Samson C-Deuce). Her 23tons, acres of wetted surface and 3-blade, fixed propeller are driven by only a 107sqm sailarea, divided on two cambered panel HM style sails. Still Samson went noticeably better than Tystie and could tack around without needing the engine. So what if there had been more wind? Forget it; from a mid F4 Samson will walk away from anyone.

    Conclusion: My armchair hunch is that there will not be much difference in performance if you fitted two sister boats with the same sail area of cambered junk sails, one being the HM type and one being fanned. They both would easily walk away from a third boat fitted with a flat sail.

    Arne

    PS: I suggest you look up the reports from the rallies in 2004 (NL44, p.18 and p.22) and 2008 (NL52, p6 and p.30). The gorgeous photo of Samson (thanks to Peter Manning) in NL52 p.30 should say more than words.
  • 20 Nov 2011 20:13
    Quote
    Reply # 755217 on 754983
    Anonymous member

    Hi,

    If I should rig a heavy, longkeeled boat I would go for an Arne Kverneland/ Viktor Wintertun rig with cambered panels. Pergrin is a heavy boat, with an ideal mast position from the design so that most of the sail is behind the mast. You can read about Pergrin and Sebastian Hentchel on www.tuchwerkstatt.de. It is us crazy racers that want sails that can go as close to the wind as possible, because that is the point of sail that the junk rig performs not as well as the pointy sails. When you race around the cans, the track is laid out so that you have a beat agaist the wind, a reach, a gybe and another reaching leg. Then another beat, a run with the wind, round the can and another beat to the finishing line. That means you have 3 legs of beating, 2 legs of reaching and 1 dead run. To compensate for all that beating against the wind, you have to have a wonder of a boat on reach and run. Add the fact that the racing brigade have slim spinnakers for the reaching and belly ones for the running, no wonder that they sail away from you. I dont race around the cans, I do races on a course set around islands, shallows etc. Also I enter a class without spinnakers, and that gives me a benefit when the beating legs are short. Edmond Dantes can go 35 degrees to relative wind. Top speed on a beat is rarely over 6 knots, and she needs a fair wind to reach that speed. The faster the boat goes, the less angle you get against the true wind. Travelling agaist the wind is best done with an angle of 40 degrees. Just tie the rudder and make a sandwich, that is the best sailing against the wind. I am looking for a few degrees when beating, and the split junkrig may be an answer, but I need a more "slippery" hull to benefit from a better sail. The differences in the sail will be more evident than with Edmond Dantes as "hull speed" is a quite defined 7,5 knots. I firmly believe that you can put a junk rig on any hull you can find, period.
  • 20 Nov 2011 19:44
    Quote
    Reply # 755202 on 754983
    Anonymous member
    Hello Mark,
    The answer to your last question first: I went to the membership directory, 'all JRA members', and entered 'essex' in the search box, and got a list of 6 (including yourself). 

    "Peregrine" is a long-keeled Scottish fishing boat type, that was originally sailed with a dipping lugsail, so it wasn't too much of a leap of faith to put a junk rig on a mast near the bow.  
    I wouldn't think that a Falmouth Quay Punt would find herself to be very much at home in Essex waters, with her deep draught. I'd be looking at the local types. They would generally have had a gaff rig, fairly low but with a lot of power to drive a heavy boat. A plumb-ended boat should be able to carry a mast fairly near the bow, with a low aspect ratio junk sail on it. The sail should be built with cambered panels, for sure, to get sufficient drive. The planform of Peregrine's sail, based on the well-tested Hasler/McCleod design principles, is easy to understand and to make, for your first venture into junk rig, and if made with deeply cambered panels, up to 10% camber, will work well. But if you are able to put in a little more work into the understanding and building of a fanned planform sail, I feel that it would pay dividends. Have a look at Fantail in the photo gallery. This sail works well, and can be scaled up (or down) to any desired area. The 4 degrees of forward mast rake, put in for reasons of convenience, also makes the rig easier to use, and better balanced downwind.
  • 20 Nov 2011 10:09
    Quote
    Message # 754983
    Anonymous member

    Hello,

    I am in the planning stage of creating a junk rigged wooden sailing boat.  I intend to use a wooden hull that is in need of restoration and re-rig, such as falmouth quay punt, or bawley.  Basically a long keel boat with plumb bow and square transom. 

    How do you go about choosing the right rig?  I like the look of peregrines rig, how do you know if it will suit the boat?

    Do you know of any one sailing a junk rig in the essex area?

    Regards

    Mark

     
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