PANGO'S first sail (video)

  • 24 Apr 2019 13:38
    Reply # 7301439 on 7296839
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi, Ueli

    Er... I am not so sure about that. When I was pondering the idea of making a sail with 10% camber for Ingeborg, I produced the sketch, below. Even the circular foil with 10% camber has a 22.5° angle between the leading edge and the battens. Pango’s sail appears to have a wing-style foil, so that angle at the leading edge should be closer to 31°.

    Sooo... that mysterious entry angle must be something else, me thinks.

    Arne


  • 24 Apr 2019 10:29
    Reply # 7301223 on 7296839

    hi arne

    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    …Like Graeme, I wonder a bit what Paul means about thaat 8° entry angle. Is it the (calculated?) angle between the apparent wind and the leading edge of the sail?


    Arne

    i think it's the angle between the leading edge and the battens…

    ueli

  • 24 Apr 2019 09:37
    Reply # 7301174 on 7296839
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I notice that Pango’s sail is said to have 10% camber. Around Christmas, I was actually considering making a new, 10% sail for my Ingeborg. However, I decided against it. Apart from being too lazy, I concluded that with the present sail area of 35sqm (377 sq. ft) on a 2150kg boat, I needed no more power. It doesn’t take that much wind before we drop the first panel, if being close-hauled.

    We had a little spin on the fjord the other day, and soon dropped a panel even though there were not a sign of white caps anywhere. We still romped along at over six knots on a reach.

    Like Graeme, I wonder a bit what Paul means about that 8° entry angle. Is it the (calculated?) angle between the apparent wind and the leading edge of the sail?

    Arne


    Last modified: 24 Apr 2019 13:21 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 24 Apr 2019 09:04
    Reply # 7301164 on 7300414
    Graeme wrote:

    Comments from a bystander: The wind picked up to a GOOD 15 knots (I thought slightly more) and the sail performed very well. It did not feel quite as "witchy" to windward as I would have expected from this very nice hull form, but still seemed close-winded and very good (especially considering the sail was hoisted for the first time).

    I think you are asking rather a lot, Graeme.  Zane had never previously sailed any boat to windward, so it was unlikely that he'd get the best out of the boat on his first attempt.  In truth, a lot of experienced sailors have problems getting the best out of a junk-rigged boat to windward.  It was Badger who taught me: she would sail herself close-hauled for hours unattended, as long as the sea wasn't too rough, and by watching her I learned how to do it myself.  For me it's as much about the relative heeling, acceleration and bite of the helm as watching the sail.  I suspect that when Zane has become more relaxed with Pango, he will find she can be persuaded to sail herself close-hauled in flat water and come to understand what she can do and what she likes.
  • 23 Apr 2019 22:15
    Reply # 7300414 on 7296839

    Comments from a bystander: The wind picked up to a GOOD 15 knots (I thought slightly more) and the sail performed very well. It did not feel quite as "witchy" to windward as I would have expected from this very nice hull form, but still seemed close-winded and very good (especially considering the sail was hoisted for the first time). Maybe aspect ratio does make a difference. But down wind? Oh man! - those big panels filled and pulled like a spinnaker.

    The sail is robust and not lightly constructed. In the flat calm when we started out, the horizontal shelf panels sagged and the sail looked terrible.  But when a little bit of wind arrived, and the sail inflated, it started to look very good, with full camber from batten to batten. 



    Pango and Freebie have now sailed off down to Motuihe for their own private junket.

    (The above photo texted back by Marcus)

    I have yet to read a good "how to" on drawing a camber profile (I mean, with some actual examples to follow) and would appreciate an explanation of "entry angle". The 8 degrees quoted by Paul tells me that I am missing something here. Can someone please urgently explain (and/or refer me to the notes that Paul refers to?) I was about to start cutting sail cloth this morning, but will wait now in the hopes that I might not have to learn something the hard way. Perhaps this question would be worth a new forum thread.


    Last modified: 23 Apr 2019 23:05 | Anonymous member
  • 23 Apr 2019 20:45
    Reply # 7300265 on 7297263
    Anonymous wrote:

    Wow, congratulations!
    Talking about showing off the camber! I hope you will give us a bit more info on the rig, dimensions , areas, dept of camber, battens and mast in use, etc...
    I also liked those solar panels.

    Arne

    Hi Arne, here is the info you want to know.

    Johanna style HM sail, built using the shelf foot method. Luff and leach done in traditional sailmaking style. Designed camber is 8%, actual camber about 10%. Camber profile as per the info that Slieve sent Alan Martiensson. Max camber at 37% and slight hollow in the aft part.

    Material: Odyssey III

    Aspect ratio: 1.7

    Lead: 12%

    Sail area: 330 square feet

    Yard: 100 x 3 6060 T6 aluminum tube in a sleeve.

    Battens: 50 x 1.6 6060 T6 aluminum tube except for the lowest (boom) batten which is 50 x 3 6060 T6 Sail is laced to the battens.

    Control lines: Halyard, Sheet, Yard hauling parrel, one running luff parrel starting on batten 2, leading to batten 3 and then down. Batten parrels on all battens and the yard. The standing part of the halyard is attached to the yard 500mm aft (10% of yard length) of the block (which is attached at the center). This is now my standard way of doing the halyard yard attachment. It means I do not need a THP. I expect to put in one or two standing luff parrels but have not done so yet.

                    
    Sail is low aspect as we were using the carbon fiber mast originally made for Zane's previous boat Partisan (a 21ft JOG racer). So far the boat has only been sailed in light airs (up to 15 knots). The helm has been close to neutral over all courses (windward, reaching & running).

    I expect that she will show a bit more weather helm when in stronger winds but so far in winds up to 15 knots the helm has been almost neutral.

    Sail still needs a little tweaking but it setup very easily. I basically just attached the required lines and the sail just fell into position.

    1 file
    Last modified: 24 Apr 2019 04:29 | Anonymous member
  • 23 Apr 2019 14:35
    Reply # 7299458 on 7296839

    Very impressive, Zane. A good-looking sail; clear, uncluttered decks; a Mingming-style companionway that looks very neat - what's not to like?

    Trust Marcus to go shimmying up the sail! I hope the battens survived the experience.

  • 22 Apr 2019 17:52
    Reply # 7297931 on 7296839

    Well done Zane, she looks lovely and I too like the two-tone sails. Paul

    PS, the man with the beard on deck looks like a younger me!

  • 22 Apr 2019 12:43
    Reply # 7297389 on 7296839

    Thank you so much for sharing a slice with us all Zane.
    I wish you a long and happy feast on the rest of the cake.
    May fair winds carry you both to countless adventures.

  • 22 Apr 2019 11:10
    Reply # 7297277 on 7297263
    Anonymous wrote:

    Wow, congratulations!
    Talking about showing off the camber! I hope you will give us a bit more info on the rig, dimensions , areas, dept of camber, battens and mast in use, etc...
    I also liked those solar panels.

    Arne


    Ah huh, dear Arne, my folkboat cousin -  we need The Oracle - Mr Paul J Thompson to provide that level of detail.  Calling the Oracle, come in Oracle.....

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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