Is this a good hull for junk please ?

  • 20 May 2019 13:06
    Reply # 7351487 on 7262786

    I missed replies, so thank you all, I have learnt a load, and you are all guilding me toward my goals.

    the boat was sold, and I decided it was to deep on keel. but am looking between 35-45' leaning towards 45'. long term at sea, id prefer space.

  • 29 Apr 2019 10:54
    Reply # 7308775 on 7262786

    Andrew, The heavier the boat the more sail area required to power her. In yacht design there is a formula called "Sail area to Displacement ratio (SA/DISP)" which proportion the sail area to the displacemnt. I used this formula to check Chinese traditional fishing junks and found that they are around 12-14 in SA/DISP. Assuming the DISP of 23 tonne is correct, your sail area will be 105 sq.meters if SA/DISP is 13, and 144 sq.meters if SA/DISP is 18. Most junk rig sailors prefer more power because its easy for junk sail to reef. Assuming you have 144 sq.meter of sails divided into 3 equal mast, its only 48 sq.meter of sails which can easily be handled.

    John Kwong

    Last modified: 29 Apr 2019 10:55 | Anonymous member
  • 14 Apr 2019 12:44
    Reply # 7281486 on 7262786

    Andrew, in the middle of the ocean, large is good, within reason. Reefing is quick and easy, whatever the size, and the extra work in hoisting sail again can be spread over a longer time. If the typical decision is whether to tack today or tomorrow, sailing is not too onerous. 40 ft is manageable, if the displacement is moderate. An example that comes to mind is Paul Fay's Ti Gitu, 40ft and 12 - 14 tons displacement - a luxuriously large liveaboard for two people, with two junk sails of 500 sq ft. Along the coast, sailing in variable conditions through intricate passages would indicate something smaller and lighter to sail.

    I suggest that you query the displacement with the seller, and maybe with Halvorsen. In the photos, it doesn't look as heavy as 23 tonnes. But if it is, then all the costs and work involved, which are measured per tonne, ought to be enough to put anyone off, unless they actually have a need for a very large boat. Everything is approximately in proportion to the cube of the length, and a 44ft boat is twice the size of a 35ft boat.

    Last modified: 14 Apr 2019 12:49 | Anonymous member
  • 14 Apr 2019 09:08
    Reply # 7281429 on 7262786
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Andrew,

    I think it makes more sense to talk about tons than about feet or metres. Personally, I prefer boats which are moderately long for their displacement.  More length (within reason) both raises the cruising speed and makes better room for the JR and its sheets.

    The problem with raising the displacement, is that all the bits in the rig, plus the engine size and fuel consumption goes up. Rudders and self-steering gears must also be of bigger size (expensive), etc, etc. I have sailed a 23ton JR schooner. It is all right in a sunny breeze along the coast, but that thing is still a ship, rather than a yacht. Its engine is way too big for manual starting, so all sorts of backups (battery banks) are needed. Same with the rig. Winches and ropes are in a different league. Just scrubbing and painting the thing is a project compared to on a 4-8ton vessel.

    I would rather look for the smallest boat for the task, than the biggest. David’s displacement numbers makes sense, that is, for long term cruising. For weekend or holiday, coastal cruising, I would say lighter is better.

    It also depends on one’s approach to boating and sailing. Do you want a floating home which can be sailed, or do you want a enjoyable sailboat, which can be lived on over a shorter or longer period of time?

    Arne


    Last modified: 14 Apr 2019 09:26 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Apr 2019 07:12
    Reply # 7281374 on 7262786

    How much harder is it to sail a 40’ over oceans, or long term cruising, v 33-36’?


    Last modified: 14 Apr 2019 07:13 | Anonymous member
  • 06 Apr 2019 09:01
    Reply # 7262884 on 7262786

    I'm seeing a price of "$0.05 Negotiable" - five cents, and that would be fair, because it's another of those hugely expensive project boats that we see so often, to bring back to a reasonably seaworthy condition. It's large, so the costs , both initial and ongoing are going to be high.

    Only to be considered if you are a family of four or five, looking to go voyaging, I would say. Look at the displacement: 23 tonnes. My rule of thumb is 4 tonnes per person, less if you're a minimalist, more if you have deep pockets, are looking for a luxurious amount of space and carrying capacity, and have the strength and stamina to deal with sailing and maintaining it - let's say 8 tonnes per person as a sensible top limit. But 23 tonnes?

    Last modified: 06 Apr 2019 10:51 | Anonymous member
  • 06 Apr 2019 08:00
    Reply # 7262847 on 7262786

    Hi Andrew,

    no reason why a junk rig should not be fitted to this boat. I would suggest a two masted rig, probably a schooner based on what I can see of the profile of the boat. Wooden staved masts would b good as also would hurricane rated aluminium flag poles. 

     From the photos it looks like a lot of work!!

    All the best, David.

  • 06 Apr 2019 06:29
    Message # 7262786

    https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/beachport/motorboats-powerboats/steel-yacht-project/1214219622

    is there any reason you would not go for this hull doing a junk rig?

    Has anyone done similar , would I be better doing timber box mast or flag pole, or _____?

    i would love to hear from brains trust as it will get snapped up fast as only 5k for hull /engine etc. 


       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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