The price is right, is it junk-able?

  • 30 Jan 2019 09:17
    Reply # 7136673 on 7131295

    My answer to both questions is to do the minimum necessary to get seaworthy, and then go sailing to find out what the boat needs, rather than going on what we, in the comfort of our armchairs, are saying. There's no substitute for first hand practical experience. With Weaverbird, I could take a shrewd guess at what kind of rig would suit her, based on many long years of junk rig sailing, but I didn't go firm on that until after the two day delivery trip home under bermudan rig.

  • 30 Jan 2019 07:56
    Reply # 7136600 on 7131359
    David Tyler wrote:

    I agree that the rudder looks a bit marginal, but with a well balanced rig, and an end plate, it could be OK.

    Would it be worth while adding an end plate to the bottom of the keel (like the Shoestring)?

    I think in the circumstances I'd go for a low AR split junk, to keep the heeling

    I went ya ok, that makes sense... what is a low AR rig these days? I notice PJR gives a range from 1.46 to 2.78. The Otterbelly seems to use an AR of 1.6 for the same boat at 3 feet shorter (it doesn't have the shower). Does that sound about right?

  • 28 Jan 2019 03:46
    Reply # 7132436 on 7132110
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    there is already a Buccaneer 24 sailing around with a JR. It is owned by JRA member Karlis Kalnins, and he described his boat and his re-build of the rudder in JRA Magazine 74, p.26. Your boat is bigger and heavier. Could it be an idea to fit a large (8-9.9hp) Yamaha with a xl-leg and hight-thrust drive on the centre-line? That would let you motorsail. One rudder at each side of the ob, just as big as the one original, would be my choice.

    Funny, I remember reading that but did not realize it was the same boat almost. (The JRA mag is wrong BTW, it says it is a Buccaneer 18) The B240 is the same boat just shorter by 2.5 feet (less than a meter)... funny how that 2.5 feet is 1000 pounds. At least one of the interiors is even the same. He seems to agree that the rudder hardware is not strong enough and, for his rudder design, not the right style design either. I am encouraged by the improved handling his redesign made. I might have to go and take a look...it is just a ferry ride and an hour drive.

    Anyway, I suggest you assess how much work there will be on the interior before you are under way. Interiors are slow to build, so it may be an idea to pay a bit more for something with an operational interior.

    If I am not looking for yacht finish (this model is not worth it) just dry and clean and painted, it will be doable. Our needs are flat surfaces to put foam on (old sleeping bags make good foam covers) and a table to eat on. The kitchen is not bad as it is.... Paint!  :)  Three or four sheets of 3/8 ply is a lot less than "a boat that needs less work". I have looked at $1500 boats that look a bit better but still need similar work. (actually three or four sheets is pretty optimistic but even double that is within reach) I don't need closed in storage, just enough to keep a "Rubbermaid" style container from shifting.
  • 28 Jan 2019 01:01
    Reply # 7132291 on 7131359

    David Tyler wrote:

    Going by the sailboat data, she's rather narrow, and of shoal draught and light displacement. I think she should be considered as a 50/50 motor sailor, which would not be inappropriate for a young family crew and the light wind conditions inside Vancouver Island in summer. I think I'd want a functioning diesel, for that kind of scenario. I agree that the rudder looks a bit marginal, but with a well balanced rig, and an end plate, it could be OK.

    The beam is decided by the interest in making it a trailer sailor. More compromises than can be imagined in this boat.The diesel has many good things going for it, less fuel for distance, longer lasting too. However, it has one big downside for me, weight. The engine adds 1000 pounds which also means one trailer class up too. The extra weight would be welcome for stability though. So, as I say, I will set the engine aside for now (unless it just runs maybe) and use the OB bracket with my little 8 HP for now. It will be good enough to get us to "Tree Island" at least.(whydoestheeditorshallowmyspaces?)

    I think in the circumstances I'd go for a low AR split junk, to keep the heeling moment low when sailing upwind and the sheet loads and helm loads low when sailing downwind, and not worry too much about going for the last ounce of windward performance. She won't stand up to much canvas in a fresh breeze, and there's nothing that goes to windward as well as a good diesel in a light breeze.

    Being of light displacement, I think a simple open plan interior is called for, and it would be right to think of her as a simple family camping boat for exploring the sheltered waters of the Gulf Islands and Desolation Sound.

    I hadn't thought low AR but it does make sense (a reefed high AR is a low AR after all). Less heeling as an introduction to sailing is a good idea too, we do not need to go fast or far, there are so many places to go in this area and only a few we have visited. Not having to spend time setting up a camp site gives us much more wiggle room. 

    I am also thinking open interior. I do not need an enclosed head or fore cabin. I do need a dinette and the cook area is one of the few parts still intact. I have both a porta-potti and a luggable loo, either of which will fit under the fore peck cutout. The one thing we will need is a mast step and I would like to figure placement of that before finalizing my layout. The sole has been ripped out just above keel for a few feet and the power boat ancestry is apparent in that the space under the sole is foam filled for flotation. So I will have to clean that out to put a mast step in.

    As you can tell from earlier comments, I would like to keep this trailerable, so the mast needs some sort of easy take down option (again Low AR helps). I think I need to know both where the mast will be and how high before I worry about that.


    Last modified: 28 Jan 2019 01:02 | Anonymous member
  • 27 Jan 2019 21:59
    Reply # 7132110 on 7131295
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Len,

    there is already a Buccaneer 24 sailing around with a JR. It is owned by JRA member Karlis Kalnins, and he described his boat and his re-build of the rudder in JRA Magazine 74, p.26. Your boat is bigger and heavier. Could it be an idea to fit a large (8-9.9hp) Yamaha with a xl-leg and hight-thrust drive on the centre-line? That would let you motorsail. One rudder at each side of the ob, just as big as the one original, would be my choice.

    Anyway, I suggest you assess how much work there will be on the interior before you are under way. Interiors are slow to build, so it may be an idea to pay a bit more for something with an operational interior.

    Good luck!

    Arne

    Last modified: 27 Jan 2019 23:36 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 27 Jan 2019 17:46
    Reply # 7131778 on 7131356
    David Webb wrote:

    almost anything is junkable!! The Buccaneer should convert OK, my main concern would be rudder area, it looks a bit small even for the original rig and may need to be increased because of the additional weather helm produced by a junk rigged boat. This should not be a difficult item,

    ...

    Regarding the engine, I would have a mechanic go over it before deciding anything as sometimes an apparent pile of junk can be a good engine in disguise!

    Changing the rudder size would not be difficult, I do think the fittings are a bit undersized though and added weight/pressure may be too much for it. I will measure it once I get the boat on my own property. I got the idea they were 1/4 (6mm) stock but that may just be my perspective compared to the rudder size.

    I haven't given up on the engine for sure even though it is 50 years old, it may have relatively low hours on it. However, parts can be pricey and I do have an 8 HP OB. If it is too hard to get running I will set it aside and take a second look after I have done everything else and had time to save up again.


  • 27 Jan 2019 08:10
    Reply # 7131359 on 7131295

    Going by the sailboat data, she's rather narrow, and of shoal draught and light displacement. I think she should be considered as a 50/50 motor sailor, which would not be inappropriate for a young family crew and the light wind conditions inside Vancouver Island in summer. I think I'd want a functioning diesel, for that kind of scenario. I agree that the rudder looks a bit marginal, but with a well balanced rig, and an end plate, it could be OK.

    I think in the circumstances I'd go for a low AR split junk, to keep the heeling moment low when sailing upwind and the sheet loads and helm loads low when sailing downwind, and not worry too much about going for the last ounce of windward performance. She won't stand up to much canvas in a fresh breeze, and there's nothing that goes to windward as well as a good diesel in a light breeze.

    Being of light displacement, I think a simple open plan interior is called for, and it would be right to think of her as a simple family camping boat for exploring the sheltered waters of the Gulf Islands and Desolation Sound.

  • 27 Jan 2019 07:47
    Reply # 7131356 on 7131295

    Hi Len,

    almost anything is junkable!! The Buccaneer should convert OK, my main concern would be rudder area, it looks a bit small even for the original rig and may need to be increased because of the additional weather helm produced by a junk rigged boat. This should not be a difficult item, just laminate plywood over the existing rudder blade that is in the water and allow an extension aft and a small extension forward to increase the balance area. Also add a bottom plate and an anti turbulence plate near the waterline. The additional thickness will probably improve the performance of the rudder as well. I would agree with the probable mast position for an Aero or split junk rig, for a normal Hasler/McCloud type sail then the mast should be further forward. This should be accurately calculated and drawn up before any fabrication begins, the first step being to calculate the existing C of A of the hull and the C of E of the existing sail plan. This will also allow for the experts on this forum to make constructive comments and give advice.

    Regarding the engine, I would have a mechanic go over it before deciding anything as sometimes an apparent pile of junk can be a good engine in disguise!

    All the best with the project.

    David.

    Last modified: 27 Jan 2019 07:49 | Anonymous member
  • 27 Jan 2019 05:47
    Message # 7131295

    I have found one of these: https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/buccaneer-270 The price is right (mine for the cost of moving) The hull is in ok shape (the bottom of the keel should be re-glassed) and it does include the mast/rigging/sails. It seems to be the 275 model (same as the 270 with an engine) but the interior is trashed, or at least it has had a lot ripped out as the beginning of a project. There is an OB bracket on the back and if the motor is in the same condition as the interior I may be best to remove the motor and use an OB.

    My purpose for this boat is to see how the family likes sailing so I would like it to be a good experience  :)  The CLR looks to be about 1/3 of the distance from the rear port light to the middle one. This makes it look like the mast for a split or AeroJunk would only need a slight forward movement. Basically, I can place it anywhere from where it is (mid shower) to the bunk. It looks like the shower wall was intended to support the mast... but that has been ripped out (and won't be replaced). After a good cleaning and drying I would put in the simplest bench(s), table and paint I can figure to give me the right number of sleeping places.

    A new mast and junk rig should be the hardest part I hope. Anyway, If I can get the interior done we can at least go camping via whatever sails we have or the 8hp ob.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software