Tenders

  • 26 Jan 2011 17:53
    Reply # 507865 on 489103
    Thank you very much indeed David, that's really useful.  I have cleared a space in my garage and, thus encouraged, shall get on with it...
  • 26 Jan 2011 07:01
    Reply # 507558 on 489103
    As it happens, I'm anchored next to a Kiwi boat in Cygnet, and they have a Roofrack tender. I've put some photos in a 'miscellaneous photos' album in Box.
    Martin has written this about the Roofrack:

    "Some comments on using and building John Welsford’s Roof Rack dinghy.

     

    In use it has proved very practical in that it has carried Seabird’s crew of two with groceries, fuel, water and from time to time folding bicycles. It rows very well for seven foot two inch flat bottomed, pram dinghy. We row everywhere, even into strong trade winds in Noumea; though the ride is wet in strong wind and swell. The cambered fore and aft seat has plenty of buoyancy and allows one to adjust the rowing position according to load carried. I added a third rowing position about half way between the two shown on the plans so that my wife, being much lighter than me, was not compelled to row from the bow when we were both in the dinghy. When harbour sailing we sometimes tow the dinghy, it tows straight and dry at speeds of up to 6.5 knots.

     

    Building a roof rack is quite straight forward, easy enough for the average handy man. It is worth reading JW’s book ‘Backyard Boat Builder’ in order to become fully conversant with his construction technique and to take advantage of the tips he gives there. It took me about three weeks to build our tender. While I am entirely satisfied with the result there are things I would have done better if I had studied the text of John’s book before I had started.

     

    I built a ‘Roof Rack’ because it was the simplest design I could find that would fit on our fore deck and because there was simply nothing available commercially that would do the job of being a heavily used rowing tender to a cruising yacht. We got rid of the Walker Bay that was on the boat when we bought it!

     

    The lack of availability of a good tender is shown by the fact that there are frequently people examining the dinghy when we return from a trip ashore. They ask us a lot of questions about it. One person left his card asking us to e-mail him details of the design.

     

    All things considered building a tender wasn’t a cheap option but the resulting serviceable craft, which is a pleasure to row, was well worth the effort. It is also very satisfying to be able to say “I built it”."


  • 06 Jan 2011 22:28
    Reply # 490724 on 489103
    My plan is to build a stitch and tape plywood nesting dinghy. I bought the plans many years ago and it is designed as a plywood on frame dinghy but as the plans give dimensions for the panels I think it can be easily done in S&T.  I expect it to be substantially lighter as well.
  • 06 Jan 2011 11:22
    Reply # 490363 on 490080
    David Tyler wrote:
    Paul Thompson wrote: Annie,

    I agree with all you have said, except of cause for the aluminum dinghy bit. Yes have sins, as you have pointed out but the sins are the results of an outstanding virtue. They are nearly indestructible and I happy to live with the downsides for that virtue. They also have another sin, that is everyone wants to steal them, so you have to keep a very sharp and beady eye on them and secure them properly when you go ashore.


    Paul,
    You should go to the "commuter's dock" in Pittwater NSW, where all the folks who live without road access around the bay bring their "tinnies" in. It sounds like a continuous rumble of thunder, as they all beat the bejasus out of each other. They're all indestructible, but they're all badly dented. As a result, some folks have got moulded polythene dinghies, which are also reasonable indestructible - and quiet.
    Anthony,
    Are the Sportyak polythene dinghies still around in England?
    They might be worth a look. Have a look at:
    http://www.atlanticfocus.com/FAQ_boats.htm
    and
    http://www.atlanticfocus.com/TENDERS%20PAGE.htm
    for other brands. The "ECO 2" looks a good deal.
    David

    I did look at the FunYak Helix, but, whilst indestructable, it's just that bit too long, wide and heavy.  I have a Bic 245 leaning against the side of my house.  This is made of the same stuff, but, again, is too long for ZL.  Something else which needs to be taken into account if anyone is thinking of buying one is the low seating position.  Getting down to a few inches off the bottom boards is OK for the young, but not so good for oldies.

    Many thanks for the two links.  The Atlantic Focus 2 looks like a starter.  It would fit and I am arranging to have a look at one.
  • 06 Jan 2011 10:53
    Reply # 490353 on 490038
    Annie Hill wrote: Whew - this is a BIg discussion!  Having spent a fair bit of time sailing either without an engine or with an outboard, I've had more than a little practice in this sort of stuff.

    A large anchor and its attendant chain can be moved in a dinghy fairly safely.  Things that help are:

    1   a dinghy with a transom stern
    2   a large fairlead, shaped like an anchor roller, that can be attached to said transom
    3   the ability to be able to manoeuvre the dinghy directly under the stemhead fitting
    4   an eye within easy reach of the rower, to which can be tied a slippery hitch from the anchor, which will be hanging off the dinghy's fairlead.
    5   Plenty of rope, ideally floating, attached to the chain.

    If all these desiderata are in place, the idea is to lower big anchor into dinghy and follow it with its chain until you reach the rope.  Hang anchor over fairlead a-dangle and secure it in place with slippery hitch.  Row to desired spot and without (ideally) missing a stroke, let go anchor which will fall and take the chain after it.  (Yes, it will all be in a heap, but in truth modern anchors are very forgiving of this sort of abuse.)  Row back at top speed to boat and haul in rope and chain until anchor starts to do its thing.  All a lot easier with two people.

    If the situation is less dire, David's suggestion of a 'baby' anchor, a little light chain and lots of string is great.  Haul yourself out of the embarrassing situation and then anchor normally if you wish to.  If possible, have a self-tailing winch located on the centre deck (which most pram-hood controlled boats will already have) and a handful of snatch blocks that can be secured to strong points on deck.  This way you can effectively haul yourself off in most directions.

    Dinghies should most certainly be available at a moment's notice.  On 'Iron Bark', Trevor can launch 11ft 2ins 'Lisa' in less than a minute (and indeed, so can I). For coastal sailing, the dinghy is carried on deck the right way up.  The launching arrangement took a while to design, but has proved very effective.  The painter has an eye spliced into it and the bitter end has a loop.  At each transom knee is spliced a grommet (three-strand rope has many advantages).  The painter is led through these and then the two eyes held together and shackled on to the main halliard.  Two lengths of wood, about 4" x 1" are secured to the pin rails with webbing loops (you will have to adapt this to JR) and have a  line to cleat them in place.  These go down to the waterline outside the hull and act as skids.  Haul on the halliard, shove the dinghy out sideways and lower handsomely until she is against the skids,  The halliard can then be lowered at a run, unshackled and the dinghy is ready for use.  Of course the oars and rowlocks are always carried inside.

    'Badger' had smaller dinghies.  One we hoisted ignominiously into the air with her painter and dumped over the side - an after deck stopped water getting in.  The sweet little 'Caper', (an excellent dinghy, "Nymph' designed by Phil Bolger) we launched by halliard, but she was so light that the skids were unnecessary.  My friends Katie and Maurice, launched 'Nanook's' dinghy by dropping the guard rails on deck. putting protective tubing over the rail and heaving her over.  That's how I intend to launch 'Fantail's' dinghy.

    Don't know JW's 'Roof rack', but his dinghies have a good reputation.

    Alloy dinghies are certainly tough, but IMHO they are a bit antisocial at the dinghy dock where they will beat up every other hard dinghy they meet.  In times of stress, they can be a bit hard on the mother ship, too.  Even good fendering won't help in very rough conditions where both yacht and dinghy are leaping about.  'Pool noodles' or that grey foam tubing used to insulate pipes, make execellent gunwhale covering, especially wrapped in fabric to keep off the UV.

    I agree that an anchor should always be available on the bow roller until you are off soundings - or at least out of anchoring depths, which several of my friends have discovered to be as much as 180 ft!

    Is the Hall anchor they same type as used on big ships?  Hmm.  My preference is for anchors without moving parts - much kinder to hands, yachts and dinghies in moments of stress.  A baby Bruce or Manson Supreme will have excellent holding power for its size and be easy to handle with one hand.

    My friend Dennis Brown some designs for the sweetest little prams, one of which I hope to build.  From about 6 ft to about 8ft.  They are essentially 'wood sandwich' and super light - I can easily lift the 6ft version and carry it on my back a considerable distance and I am neither tall nor strong.  It is built of the lightest wood you can lay hands on, over moulds.  When all the wood is stapled into place, you bog it up and smooth if off and glass the outside.  The you (gingerly) lift it off the moulds and fill and fair the inside.  You then put a couple of frames inside and fit gunwhales (or gun'l's), by which time it is stiff enough that you can sand and glass the interior.  I have the feeling that I have the sequence of events slightly wrong, but you get the idea. 

    Light dinghies are more vulnerable in some ways, but one the other hand, they don't self-destruct like heavy dinghies and are a lot easier to haul up out of harm's way in a hurry.  And to get on an off the boat.  Glass and wood are easy to repair, too.

    I think it is quite telling how many serious offshore sailors still have solid dinghies.  It's more than relative poverty or nostalgia.  Lots of voyagers love their inflatables, of course, but most of them treat them like solid dinghies: always inflated and, increasingly, with hard bottoms!  But as the really do require an outboard, there are real weight issues here.



    Annie

    All read, marked, learned and inwardly digested - thank you.  I did have in mind a Tortoise, such as you had on Badger but the Roof Rack has a bit more freeboard, built-in buoyancy, and the plans are easier to obtain.  Getting a money order for $30 and posting it to America is amazingly tedious compared with buying over the internet.

    Yes, the Hall anchor is very like that favoured by the Battleship Vanguard, but smaller.  And yes, it will give your hand a nasty nip as soon as look at you, so its days are probably numbered.

    Incidentally, I think I may have your cooker!  When Alan and Gloria Parsons bought Badger and sold Zuleika Louise, I am told they wanted to keep ZL's oven version of the Taylors cooker so they swopped it for Badgers non-oven version.  If this is true, you'll be pleased to know it is still doing sterling service.
  • 06 Jan 2011 10:37
    Reply # 490351 on 490012
    Paul Thompson wrote: Anthony,

    The Welsford "Roof Rack" would be very easy to build in aluminum. If I were you, I'd find a local fabricator who works in aluminum (probably builds tanks etc) Ask him whats the thinest stock he can easily weld. That should be around 2 to 3mm. For this case 2mm would be better but 3mm will work very well as well.

    Then propose to your fabricator that he orders the material (5000 series material he will most likely be able to get it cheaper than you can and his small profit on the material will sweeten him up as well) and welds up the dinghy for you. You cut out the panels (just needs a good jigsaw and the correct blade) and then using the same technique that you'd use for stitch and glue construction, you drill some holes close to the edge (3 - 4 mm) and then pull the shape together wiring as you go. You want to use as few wires as possible as the holes will need to be welded close. When you are done, the whole structure will be quite stiff and you can then take it to the fabricator and have him weld it up for you.

    You may need to stiffen the bottom a little. Three or so stringers from aluminum angle (about 30x30x2 or 3mm, placed so the open side of the triangle is against the plate) will do the trick. The stringers should not be fully welded, just staggered long tacks (about 25-35mm). leave the ends open. The stingers can be inside or outside. I'd put them outside as it would make cleaning the inside easier and will give the bottom a bit of protection.

    For the gunal (spelling?) 25mm tubing can be tacked on. The above should give you a light and near indestructable dinghy at a very reasonable price. No need to paint.
    Paul

    Thanks very much for your comprehensive suggestion.

    My first search for tank manufacturers produced a company called Vickers, who said they could knock me up a Challenger 2 for aroound £30m, (but only if I had an end-user certificate).  Further investigation has revealed several 'aluminium fabricators' based on Cowes and I am checking out likely costs.
  • 05 Jan 2011 22:49
    Reply # 490089 on 490080
    David Tyler wrote: Paul,
    You should go to the "commuter's dock" in Pittwater NSW, where all the folks who live without road access around the bay bring their "tinnies" in. It sounds like a continuous rumble of thunder, as they all beat the bejasus out of each other. They're all indestructible, but they're all badly dented. As a result, some folks have got moulded polythene dinghies, which are also reasonable indestructible - and quiet.

    Fortunately I am totally deaf :-) Sometimes I do feel just a wee bit sorry for you hearing folks.
  • 05 Jan 2011 22:34
    Reply # 490080 on 490059
    Paul Thompson wrote: Annie,

    I agree with all you have said, except of cause for the aluminum dinghy bit. Yes have sins, as you have pointed out but the sins are the results of an outstanding virtue. They are nearly indestructible and I happy to live with the downsides for that virtue. They also have another sin, that is everyone wants to steal them, so you have to keep a very sharp and beady eye on them and secure them properly when you go ashore.


    Paul,
    You should go to the "commuter's dock" in Pittwater NSW, where all the folks who live without road access around the bay bring their "tinnies" in. It sounds like a continuous rumble of thunder, as they all beat the bejasus out of each other. They're all indestructible, but they're all badly dented. As a result, some folks have got moulded polythene dinghies, which are also reasonable indestructible - and quiet.
    Anthony,
    Are the Sportyak polythene dinghies still around in England?
    They might be worth a look. Have a look at:
    http://www.atlanticfocus.com/FAQ_boats.htm
    and
    http://www.atlanticfocus.com/TENDERS%20PAGE.htm
    for other brands. The "ECO 2" looks a good deal.
    Last modified: 05 Jan 2011 22:34 | Anonymous member
  • 05 Jan 2011 22:10
    Reply # 490059 on 489103
    Annie,

    I agree with all you have said, except of cause for the aluminum dinghy bit. Yes have sins, as you have pointed out but the sins are the results of an outstanding virtue. They are nearly indestructible and I happy to live with the downsides for that virtue. They also have another sin, that is everyone wants to steal them, so you have to keep a very sharp and beady eye on them and secure them properly when you go ashore.

    Lastly, your epistle should go into th Q&A section as well. It's not JR but it certainly is closely related.


  • 05 Jan 2011 21:38
    Reply # 490038 on 489103
    Whew - this is a BIg discussion!  Having spent a fair bit of time sailing either without an engine or with an outboard, I've had more than a little practice in this sort of stuff.

    A large anchor and its attendant chain can be moved in a dinghy fairly safely.  Things that help are:

    1   a dinghy with a transom stern
    2   a large fairlead, shaped like an anchor roller, that can be attached to said transom
    3   the ability to be able to manoeuvre the dinghy directly under the stemhead fitting
    4   an eye within easy reach of the rower, to which can be tied a slippery hitch from the anchor, which will be hanging off the dinghy's fairlead.
    5   Plenty of rope, ideally floating, attached to the chain.

    If all these desiderata are in place, the idea is to lower big anchor into dinghy and follow it with its chain until you reach the rope.  Hang anchor over fairlead a-dangle and secure it in place with slippery hitch.  Row to desired spot and without (ideally) missing a stroke, let go anchor which will fall and take the chain after it.  (Yes, it will all be in a heap, but in truth modern anchors are very forgiving of this sort of abuse.)  Row back at top speed to boat and haul in rope and chain until anchor starts to do its thing.  All a lot easier with two people.

    If the situation is less dire, David's suggestion of a 'baby' anchor, a little light chain and lots of string is great.  Haul yourself out of the embarrassing situation and then anchor normally if you wish to.  If possible, have a self-tailing winch located on the centre deck (which most pram-hood controlled boats will already have) and a handful of snatch blocks that can be secured to strong points on deck.  This way you can effectively haul yourself off in most directions.

    Dinghies should most certainly be available at a moment's notice.  On 'Iron Bark', Trevor can launch 11ft 2ins 'Lisa' in less than a minute (and indeed, so can I). For coastal sailing, the dinghy is carried on deck the right way up.  The launching arrangement took a while to design, but has proved very effective.  The painter has an eye spliced into it and the bitter end has a loop.  At each transom knee is spliced a grommet (three-strand rope has many advantages).  The painter is led through these and then the two eyes held together and shackled on to the main halliard.  Two lengths of wood, about 4" x 1" are secured to the pin rails with webbing loops (you will have to adapt this to JR) and have a  line to cleat them in place.  These go down to the waterline outside the hull and act as skids.  Haul on the halliard, shove the dinghy out sideways and lower handsomely until she is against the skids,  The halliard can then be lowered at a run, unshackled and the dinghy is ready for use.  Of course the oars and rowlocks are always carried inside.

    'Badger' had smaller dinghies.  One we hoisted ignominiously into the air with her painter and dumped over the side - an after deck stopped water getting in.  The sweet little 'Caper', (an excellent dinghy, "Nymph' designed by Phil Bolger) we launched by halliard, but she was so light that the skids were unnecessary.  My friends Katie and Maurice, launched 'Nanook's' dinghy by dropping the guard rails on deck. putting protective tubing over the rail and heaving her over.  That's how I intend to launch 'Fantail's' dinghy.

    Don't know JW's 'Roof rack', but his dinghies have a good reputation.

    Alloy dinghies are certainly tough, but IMHO they are a bit antisocial at the dinghy dock where they will beat up every other hard dinghy they meet.  In times of stress, they can be a bit hard on the mother ship, too.  Even good fendering won't help in very rough conditions where both yacht and dinghy are leaping about.  'Pool noodles' or that grey foam tubing used to insulate pipes, make execellent gunwhale covering, especially wrapped in fabric to keep off the UV.

    I agree that an anchor should always be available on the bow roller until you are off soundings - or at least out of anchoring depths, which several of my friends have discovered to be as much as 180 ft!

    Is the Hall anchor they same type as used on big ships?  Hmm.  My preference is for anchors without moving parts - much kinder to hands, yachts and dinghies in moments of stress.  A baby Bruce or Manson Supreme will have excellent holding power for its size and be easy to handle with one hand.

    My friend Dennis Brown some designs for the sweetest little prams, one of which I hope to build.  From about 6 ft to about 8ft.  They are essentially 'wood sandwich' and super light - I can easily lift the 6ft version and carry it on my back a considerable distance and I am neither tall nor strong.  It is built of the lightest wood you can lay hands on, over moulds.  When all the wood is stapled into place, you bog it up and smooth if off and glass the outside.  The you (gingerly) lift it off the moulds and fill and fair the inside.  You then put a couple of frames inside and fit gunwhales (or gun'l's), by which time it is stiff enough that you can sand and glass the interior.  I have the feeling that I have the sequence of events slightly wrong, but you get the idea. 

    Light dinghies are more vulnerable in some ways, but one the other hand, they don't self-destruct like heavy dinghies and are a lot easier to haul up out of harm's way in a hurry.  And to get on an off the boat.  Glass and wood are easy to repair, too.

    I think it is quite telling how many serious offshore sailors still have solid dinghies.  It's more than relative poverty or nostalgia.  Lots of voyagers love their inflatables, of course, but most of them treat them like solid dinghies: always inflated and, increasingly, with hard bottoms!  But as the really do require an outboard, there are real weight issues here.



       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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