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Well, finally got my little TS16 converted and test-sailed!

  • 26 Oct 2016 10:48
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    Reply # 4348434 on 4329508
    Deleted user

    I'll try one thing at a time. I have a THP on the rig. The rudder over length might have been enough to cause problems. I'm doing some more work on the boat over the next week or so and then I'll head out again for another trial. The mast is about as far aft as I can get it and still be in front of the cabin, so it's got to be the sail trim that will fix the issue. I can always consider a small mizzen if it comes to a last resort, but I'll try the sail in a wider range of conditions before considering anything else.

    Re the HK parrels, I will only remove them only if it looks like I can do without them.
  • 25 Oct 2016 23:43
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    Reply # 4339521 on 4329508
    Anonymous member

    Thanks for the update, Steve.  Look forward to hearing how things go in further trials.  I had HK parrels on my cambered sail (replaced this year with a "flattish" one) and had no issues with them affecting performance.  Arion can be hard to tack occasionally in short steep seas like you obviously had.  They affect small, beamy boats like ours more than they do longer, leaner boats.  I recently increased the self-steering gear's trim tab on the trailing edge of my rudder by 60%, to improve running in fresh winds, and was delighted to discover that this also made tacking substantially quicker, so your rudder may well have had something to do with your problem.  I liked my HK parrels on the cambered sail (don't need them on the "flattish" one) because they made the sail more unified when hoisting or lowering.  Without them, in a swell, the battens often moved around a lot, but then I had long batten parrels.  Arne and some others use short batten parrels which resolves this issue but I found they caused a lot of friction on my rig.
  • 25 Oct 2016 07:58
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    Reply # 4331469 on 4329508
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Good to hear, Steve.

    As for Hong Kong parrels  -  they are not something I am 'for' or 'against'. If you can remove the big diagonal creases in all the panels by adjusting the throat hauling parrel, THP, then there is no need for HK parrels.

    Good luck!

    Arne
  • 25 Oct 2016 01:07
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    Reply # 4331059 on 4329508
    Deleted user

    Well it looks like I might have to try removing the HKPs and adjusting the sail position to a bit more aft. Arne, I cut my sail panels as per your drawing, and although they do llook flat in the photo it is a bit deceiving. There was zero wind that day, and the photo is directly to the side.  


    As I  said, the curvature on the port side is great and gave me nice speed even with only the top 3 panels up. The other issue was the rudder which was not fully in the down position which I am sure moved the CE aft, making a marginal tack impossible. I will deal with that issue before the next time out. 


    Overall I am very happy with the conversion, just a bit of tweaking required. 

    Last modified: 25 Oct 2016 01:08 | Deleted user
  • 25 Oct 2016 00:55
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    Reply # 4331056 on 4329508
    Anonymous member

    Good on you! Boat is looking great. LC does not use HKP's

    Last modified: 25 Oct 2016 00:56 | Anonymous member
  • 25 Oct 2016 00:31
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    Reply # 4331045 on 4329508
    Anonymous member
    I removed my HK parrels after I fitted a THP,I found I didn't need them.
  • 24 Oct 2016 22:31
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    Reply # 4330906 on 4329508
    Anonymous member

    Hi Steve,

    Well done on your conversion. I'm sure you are going to enjoy the coming summer. I sailed on a Hartley 16 years ago and the boat does give you an incredible safe feeling despite being a small boat. Maybe the beam and the flared bow help to keep the boat dry.

    I know Arne is fan of Hong Kong parrels but I would try without them and see how you go.

    Rob
  • 24 Oct 2016 15:06
    Quote
    Reply # 4329928 on 4329508
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Steve,

    your boat looks fine.

    As for the issues you have with your boat; here are my comments:

    Hong Kong parrels:
     I guess you fit them between the sail and the mast, on the sb. side, right? In that case, the mast will be the main contributor of camber distortion.  Don’t fit the HK parrels on the port side...

    Tacking problem when on the sb. tack:
    First of all, when a light boat like yours is reefed as deeply as you say, tacking is likely to be less easy than with the whole sail up. I wonder if you can have hit the sheeting point on the boat a little wrong. It should be a bit offset, but not too much, If the sheetpoint is too far to port, you will be sailing lower and faster on the sb. tack so have longer way to round up to tack. On the other hand, if the sheet point is centralised, then the boat may be too much sheeted in, so you lose drive. Bring a log or gps with you and check if the boat is much faster on one tack than the other. In that case, I would sheet in a little on the fast tack and let out a bit again when on the slowest tack. Later you can move the sheet point until you can tack without adjusting the sheet.

    I also notice that your sail, at least the top section of it, is next to flat. That has never helped tacking. I sailed my Frøken Sørensen quite frequently to windward with only 3 panels up, and she never missed a tack (sharp cutter bow, though). FS, prove to tack even on only two panels, but that was on flat water.

    I hope you make your Mk2 sail with plenty of camber, and even with a bit in the top panels, as on this sail on FS, below.

     

    Cheers, Arne


    Last modified: 24 Oct 2016 16:54 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 24 Oct 2016 12:11
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    Message # 4329508
    Deleted user

    Hello everyone. I  have been a bit quiet here for a few months. But I have been busy working on my Hartley TS16 conversion. I have pretty much finished and last weekend got her out for a shakedown.

    The weather was anything but ideal for a first sail, 18-25kts and lumpy seas. But once I worked out all the ropes and got her in the water she handled the conditions amazingly. I only managed to get three panels up in the conditions, but I have never been out in a boat in 20+ conditions and feeling so secure and comfortable. Even the coast guard boat ventured out to have a look at us. They were bobbing around like a cork but we seemed to handle the conditions with no problems.

    One issue on the performance on the sail. We spent most of our time sailing against the wind. I found that the port tack was better than the starboard tack. On that side I had trouble crossing the wind and needed to motor-sail around. The port tack was no problem and went through no problems. I did have some problems with my rudder, which was very tight and wouldn't drop completely, so I think I had an extra 30cm or so of effective keel length. I think if I had the rudder right down I would have had enough weather helm to point better and get through the wind. I'm going to fix that problem before going out again. I also wonder if the Hong Kong parrels had any effect on the camber, making it a bit less efficient on that side?

    This first sail is made from blue polytarp. It's just a prototype for me, and I will replace it when the time comes with a better material.

    Arne, your advice was very helpful. The plain 80mm aluminium mast is going to be plenty strong enough, and stepping it into a 100mm tube makes erecting the mast easy. Fortunately it isn't too heavy to be handled solo.

    This is the first time I hoisted the sail. No parrels, lazy jacks etc. at this stage but looking good! I since added a top section to the mast to get the boom up about 30cm. Much better visibility and safer in the cockpit!

    photo 20161014_185855.jpg

    At the Boat Ramp in the carpark. I didn't get a pic of the sail hoisted this time. Next time!

    photo 20161022_085811.jpg

    Ahh! I love zip ties!

    photo 20161007_182540.jpg

    Last modified: 24 Oct 2016 12:22 | Deleted user
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