Chart accuracy and electronic navigation

  • 12 Apr 2016 09:53
    Reply # 3942748 on 3876725
    Deleted user
    I have piloted a light aircraft along New Zealand's Southern Alps, flying over jagged summits and long glaciated valleys. The aircraft's GPS based navigation system (the aviation equivalent to a chartplotter) showed our track as being some forty miles offshore. The error did not correct for twenty minutes.

    Food for thought...

  • 28 Mar 2016 10:08
    Reply # 3908886 on 3876725

    I am a bit sorry if I wandered a quarter-mile off the track of the discussion, Gavin, but given the other responses your topic drew out, I felt motivated to speak for both Electronic and Traditional navigation. No versus intended, even though my bias is obvious.

    My sermon got some of its fuel, when I listened to one skipper's story... Both his GPS units failed at sea. With heaps of sea room and no other damage, he responded by setting off his EPIRB. Wrong action. Or was it? He spoke as if anyone would do the same.

    Whether it's the US military or my iPad screen or GPS antenna that fails, I'm for having an independent, reliable backup ready, and carry on with the the cruise. Lightning, don't melt both my sextants.


  • 24 Mar 2016 14:43
    Reply # 3903672 on 3876725
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Here is a toy you might find useful; a pair of very analogue plotters. Useful in setting courses or plotting bearings.

    Arne

  • 24 Mar 2016 13:18
    Reply # 3903529 on 3900839
    Kurt Jon Ulmer wrote:

    Traditional navigation, (with sextant & tables, paper charts, hand-bearing compass, watch, plotting tool and to be complete, a trailing log) can still be used almost whatever happens. You need to practise. Accuracy can't quite compare, so better sail conservatively. Charts are desk-size and they can be written on. Dividers are useful - 2, 4, 6, 8 miles. All the methods are 1890s-chart-compatible, once you sight land.

    What if I had to choose only one way? 

    No question. Traditional. But.........

    No chart plotter aboard Branwen. I learned something of the arts of coastal navigation and pilotage over 40 years ago and have always found pleasure in exercising them. Complete dependence on electric gadgets would rob cruising of much of its enjoyment: a bit like shooting salmon.

    Using traditional methods, our eyes, ears and nose, we gain an understanding of our surroundings that will help to keep us in charge when things begin to go awry. And remember the rule of thumb: put your thumb on the chart and keep that distance off.


  • 24 Mar 2016 11:22
    Reply # 3903433 on 3876725

    I think there may be some misunderstanding about what both the Yachting Monthly article is saying and my comments. This is not about electronic navigation versus traditional, it is about the fact, as I understand the article, that the existing charts for some parts of the world are adrift. They are may be accurate in terms of the relationships within them, but are displaced with respect to the earth's surface, if that makes sense. It doesn't matter whether you are accessing those charts traditionally on paper or electronically via a chart plotter (which is using the original charts converted to digital form), if they are adrift they are adrift. It is worth reading the article to understand what the implications of this are, and while the obvious advice about always approaching difficult channels by eyeball will always remain true, whatever the charts say, there are clearly risks sailing through  some areas, particularly at night, if the location of some islands or land masses  are, as the author demonstrated, displaced by up to 2.2 miles from the charted co-ordinates. It would make little difference whether you were navigating electronically or traditionally. As the authro points out, many of the discrepancies have been or are being corrected, but the focus tends to be on areas of commercial, military or political interest, leaving some less frequented areas still unrevised. I'm most unlikely to ever be in a relevant situation myself, but thought it of interest to some more intrepid JRA members!

  • 23 Mar 2016 01:54
    Reply # 3900839 on 3876725

    In Praise of Traditional and Electronic Navigation

    I think everybody should carry the gear for both, and be ready to use either. You probably do, and you probably are. This is a sermon for someone who doesn't, and isn't.

    Electronic navigation aids are accurate and wonderful. Extra-sensory perception that allows us to thread tricky channels in colour, in fog, in the dark, in shelter. Bit small, charts viewed a screen-size at a time. And, the components can fail from many causes, or be turned off by someone else.

    Traditional navigation, (with sextant & tables, paper charts, hand-bearing compass, watch, plotting tool and to be complete, a trailing log) can still be used almost whatever happens. You need to practise. Accuracy can't quite compare, so better sail conservatively. Charts are desk-size and they can be written on. Dividers are useful - 2, 4, 6, 8 miles. All the methods are 1890s-chart-compatible, once you sight land.

    What if I had to choose only one way? 

    No question. Traditional. But in happy reality we can have have the luxury of both, each a complement and backup to the other. 

    Which is more in need of a backup?

    Things each system depends upon:

    Electronic - things like batteries & charging them, US Government, exclusion of moisture, Microsoft/Apple/Google/Intel, many tiny electrical contacts, much software and its updates, someone's having geo-referenced correctly from mixed sources (e.g. Ha'apai Group, Tonga) to a modern datum, without a depth survey...

    Traditional - things like magnetism, geometry, arithmetic, a book or two, the Sun and Moon, and a quartz watch (for a proper longitude such as Captain Cook never had) and a good clear view.

    But besides all that excellent logic, which is easy and nearly safe to disregard nowadays... 

    Why ever would someone build a junk rig from scratch and take it to sea, only to be stupidly lost if they happen to 'brick' a 'device?'

    Last modified: 23 Mar 2016 03:02 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Mar 2016 08:18
    Reply # 3877817 on 3876725

    There are certainly a few places in the world where electronic charting is still based on old surveys, and hasn't been updated to modern datums. But they must now be very few, and very far off the beaten track. I've been poking around in corners of the Pacific that owe their original charting to Captains Cook, La Perouse, Vancouver, etc, and have been amazed by the standard of accuracy they achieved. I did have a paper chart of the Samoas that bore a note to the effect that it was several miles adrift! But the electronic equivalent on my iPad is spot-on. 

    This subject of using Google Earth to check the accuracy of charting has been discussed within the OCC, and it's another useful tool in the navigator's toolbox, that's for sure. It's like a Mk 1 human eyeball that's suspended well above the masthead, and the Mk 1 human eyeball is, and always has been, the best way of telling where the reefs and banks are.

  • 13 Mar 2016 04:27
    Reply # 3877661 on 3876725
    Deleted user

    I have been using electronic navigation systems for almost 30 years now. First the old Satnav system, and then GPS. Luckily I served my navigation 'apprenticeship' doing navigation the old way with a chart and a hand bearing compass, and also learning the cautions associated with navigation. I have to say though, that in my years of using GPS Chart plotters I have found them to be 100 percent accurate. I think that accuracy will depend on the quality of system used and the source of the charts. I have used Navionics, C Map, and the proprietary Garmin electronic charts. My experience has been in Tonga, New Caledonia, Tahiti and Australia, and of course New Zealand. During our recent time in New Caledonia and navigating through the reef strewn Southern Lagoon I found the plotted positions of even minor small coral reefs to be accurately shown on the chart plotter. I now use and rely on electronic chart plotters on a daily basis in my job as a skipper of fast ferries and have found for example the positioning of navigation markers to be incredibly accurate. The two ferries I drive have Touch Screen Simrad plotters which I have found very easy to use and allow us to operate in hours of darkness, in what are quite narrow channels,  at our service speed of 20 knots, which is a lot of boat and people moving at high speed. The chart plotters are coupled with Radar and I find the radar overlay on top of the electronic chart to also enhance the accuracy of navigation and confirm the accuracy of the electronic charts. 

    Of course if anyone is navigating in remote areas and approaches to coral reef passes are anticipated then approach should only be made in day light hours when visual confirmation can be made of the chart plotter information. But of interest, when entering both South and North Minerva Reefs in the South Pacific not that long ago the Chart Plotter positioning and information was completely accurate.   


    Last modified: 13 Mar 2016 07:33 | Deleted user
  • 13 Mar 2016 00:30
    Reply # 3877575 on 3876725
    You are quite right, Gavin, and it never ceases to amaze me how few people have apparently read the book of words that came with the GPS.  Not only can charts be from a different reality, but the chart datum should also be carefully checked: your GPS can (often) have its datum altered so that it more accurately matches the charts that you are using.  On the Labrador, the charts could be wildly different from the GPS and in Baffin Island, contiguous charts don't match by eye, let alone GPS!

    GPS assisted strandings are commonplace around Fiji, the Tuamotus and other Pacific Islands.  Of course, it's always the fault of the GPS!

  • 12 Mar 2016 11:40
    Message # 3876725

    Yachting Monthly has just published an article which is about using satellite imagery to check navigation. What it highlights is something that should be of keen interest to JRA members who sail to less-frequented parts of the world, which is that in some areas the charts are up to 2.2 miles in error. 

    I believe that quite a number of people using modern navigation aids such as GPS and chart plotters have complete faith in the accuracy of the data, not realising that underneath all the modern digital wizardry are charts sometimes based on surveys from the 1870s, made with sextant and lead-line, and that the errors that result can be significant and dangerous. 

    Tom Partridge, the author, records discovering that in Fiji's Lau Islands the charts were "up to 0.56 miles out, a critical difference when you're targeting a safe entry"

    The article goes on to describe how satellite images such as Google Earth can be used to check/verify/correct such errors; the link is

    http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailing-skills/how-to-make-navigation-safer-using-satellite-images-34665

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