Forgot password

Cost of Conversion

<< First  < Prev   1   2   3   Next >  Last >> 
  • 17 Apr 2015 21:39
    Quote
    Reply # 3306351 on 3302732
    Deleted user
    Annie Hill wrote:Rob, do I understand that you are putting a price on your own labour?  And if you don't mind my asking, at how much per hour.  For that matter, what are you paying for contracted labour?
    Yes, that way I get an idea of how much I saved DIY. I came up with $35usd/hr for my labor reasoning that that amount is 1/3 to 1/2 the shop fees for a professional rigger or sailmaker or machineshop or dock-walking marine laborer. I figured I'd take twice as long and have to re-do stuff. My real intent is to give the reader an estimate of what the cost for "labor" would be for non-DIY. So divide the "my labor" column by 35 and get my hours. Cost of hourly labor varys alot so the reader's cost, if they had a pro do the work, will vary. That said, I believe a pro would be "on the clock" when shopping, sourcing material, comparing prices, etc. for aluminum pipe or sail material or epoxy or fiberglass. etc. on and on. I didn't include that time in my calculation.


    Just the callout for the guys and gals working on boats diving/engine/canvas in my marina is upwards of $100usd, then the hourly is added on to that...not their fault...the marina saddles them with insurance requirements, licensing, etc...But American labor for many things is wholly un-competitive. But if you want to get the old mast pulled and a new one put in no choice but to pay the local rigger and his crane-guy what they charge. 

    For big ticket items like the mast I don't think I was too far off. The 2012 estimate  I got from Adrian at Needlspar was 2165 gbp...which was a great price but shipping doubled the total. My final cost for a near equivalent, i.e. aluminum straight- sided (go to my gallery for all the pics), in 2013-14 was 20% higher.

    When DIY, the money dribbles out over a 1-2yr period...less traumatic...until the intermitent bursts. I enjoy projects so for me not an ordeal at all. 

    robert self

    Last modified: 17 Apr 2015 22:00 | Deleted user
  • 16 Apr 2015 16:48
    Quote
    Reply # 3303785 on 3164104
    Anonymous member

    Rob, first from my experience it took 10 years to put my boat on the water and to save time try and find a boat on the water .  Junks are usually cheaper than pointy sails , steel; skin thickness at least 4,mm at least for a 40,fter , by a welder and learn to weld cutting and shutting  can be order of the day as well as painting rust spots  , junk boats are supposed to be cheap to build ,  steel lampposts  are pretty good the councils don,t want them falling on people and no electrolis . cut a slit in them and rest them on a keel web and clamp them ,  spread the loads to other webs  with welded  steel runners , likewise the cabin roof like a spider web the stress can move in any dir with a fair bit of leverage .   it,s said steel boats rust from the inside mostly from damp so, have good look inside , keep them airy in the nooks and cranys .   Still they can be cut and shut just like a car , cheek the water fittings you can get corosion my second main mast is a steel square galvinised builders beam 3mm  couldend find a lamp post   which i used to pull my boat 30ft 3mm skin of the beach after a storm   she shimied a bit but that was the skin thickness , the mast is o/k but  I wished id have put some wood inside even better .   I drilled the base of mine for a hoist rope looped to half way up  and got the local brick carrier,s hydraulic crane to put the mast in ,    Marinas are full of unused boats don,t only look at one , I wish I had .; cheers all the best in your project .    
  • 16 Apr 2015 01:41
    Quote
    Reply # 3302732 on 3164104
    Anonymous member
    Rob, do I understand that you are putting a price on your own labour?  And if you don't mind my asking, at how much per hour.  For that matter, what are you paying for contracted labour?
  • 15 Apr 2015 23:10
    Quote
    Reply # 3302664 on 3302628
    Deleted user
    robert self wrote:
     forex  materials  labour  labour  TOTAL  TOTAL
     0.75    contracted own   USD  GBP
     Sails  1,023 860  6,720  8,603  6,452 
     Yard  538
    		 392 930  697.5 
     Battens  510      510  382.5
     Mast  2,564 1,539  1,435  5,538  4,153.5 
     Mast step 349 
    		3,955  4,304  3,228
     Mast Partner  366    3,290  3,656  2,742
     Boat Yard    933    933  699.8
     Rig assembly  1,512    8,925  10,437  7,827
     TOTAL USD  6,862 3,332  24,717  34,991   
     TOTAL GBP  5,147 2,499  18,538    26,183 
    Might make more sense if numbers for the conversion were scaled to size of sail, i.e 550 ft^2. In GBP: 13.9/ft^2 for materials + contract labor and you cost your labor as free. Or 47.61 GBP/ft^2 otherwise. PS-Strange editor. Seems like I need to insert html language separaters to get my reply looking right?
    Editor not as clunky as I thought. I was using an unsupported browser.
  • 15 Apr 2015 22:39
    Quote
    Reply # 3302628 on 3291488
    Deleted user
     forex  materials  labour  labour  TOTAL  TOTAL
     0.75    contracted own   USD  GBP
     Sails  1,023 860  6,720  8,603  6,452 
     Yard  538
    		 392 930  697.5 
     Battens  510      510  382.5
     Mast  2,564 1,539  1,435  5,538  4,153.5 
     Mast step 349 
    		3,955  4,304  3,228
     Mast Partner  366    3,290  3,656  2,742
     Boat Yard    933    933  699.8
     Rig assembly  1,512    8,925  10,437  7,827
     TOTAL USD  6,862 3,332  24,717  34,991   
     TOTAL GBP  5,147 2,499  18,538    26,183 
    Might make more sense if numbers for the conversion were scaled to size of sail, i.e 550 ft^2. In GBP: 13.9/ft^2 for materials + contract labor and you cost your labor as free. Or 47.61 GBP/ft^2 otherwise. PS-Strange editor. Seems like I need to insert html language separaters to get my reply looking right?
    Last modified: 15 Apr 2015 22:51 | Deleted user
  • 12 Apr 2015 15:34
    Quote
    Reply # 3295214 on 3164104
    Anonymous

    Dunno....
  • 12 Apr 2015 11:45
    Quote
    Reply # 3295142 on 3291488
    Deleted user
    Rafa: For similar reasons to yours, I didn't want to do the junk conversion of our Freedom 39 Pilothouse School myself. At that time I was 65 and didn't wish to waste time learning to sew, and sewing a sail. I'd rather be sailing. Sunbird Marine designed the sails and Chris Scanes built them. Total cost was £15k I think. It was more than we wished to spend, but job done. Like you plan, I did the rest, with cheery help from Robin of Sunbirds.

    PS Webmaster, er, why can't I delete the above grid?


    Last modified: 12 Apr 2015 15:34 | Anonymous
  • 10 Apr 2015 17:11
    Quote
    Reply # 3293718 on 3164104
    Anonymous member

    I'm in the process of converting a Wylo to junk. 2 aluminium lamp posts for masts: £3,000; 90 sq m sailcloth £420; Sailrite sewing machine: £780; yards - using sections of scrap alloy masts: free; battens: yet to be purchased, estimate around £350 for 12 + 2 booms.

    That leaves all the other bits and pieces, steel and timber for mast steps, partners and reinforcement of the deck, blocks and cordage, fasteners, adhesives, having masthead fittings fabricated etc, etc.

    This is a little imprecise as I'm aboard the boat and my pile of receipts is at home a couple of hundred miles away. That reminds me: travel expenses are not a negligible part of the total and the boat needs to be stored somewhere while work is in progress. As for the cost of my own labour - Nada: it's a labour of love.
  • 10 Apr 2015 16:14
    Quote
    Reply # 3291488 on 3170229
    Deleted user
    Annie Hill wrote:
    rafael pereyra-lago wrote:Option 2: convert to Junk rig. Budgetary estimate for conversion (from rigger that has already converted two Freedom 30s - exactly the same boat) was GBP 10.000.
    This seems a fantastic amount of money, to me.  Chris Gallienne recently pointed out that you can buy battens for 15 quid each.  You have the masts and it's not hard to knock up a couple of yards and booms.  Rope isn't that expensive and PJR will allow you to work everything out to the nearest few inches.  Junk sails are pretty quick to put together.  I don't understand why you are being charged so much.  My suggestion would be (a) to get a quote for the sails alone and do the rest yourself or (b) do everything yourself.  There are lots of members around who have done so, and many of them, like me, are not particularly clever at this sort of thing.
    Hi Annie, all

    OK, did a reshuffle of the cost figures offered by (thanks for sharing!) Robert. Below categorised:

     forex  materials  labour  labour  TOTAL  TOTAL
     0.75    contracted own   USD  GBP
     Sails  1,023 860  6,720  8,603  6,452 
     Yard  538
    		 392 930  697.5 
     Battens  510      510  382.5
     Mast  2,564 1,539  1,435  5,538  4,153.5 
     Mast step 349 
    		3,955  4,304  3,228
     Mast Partner  366    3,290  3,656  2,742
     Boat Yard    933    933  699.8
     Rig assembly  1,512    8,925  10,437  7,827
     TOTAL USD  6,862 3,332  24,717  34,991   
     TOTAL GBP  5,147 2,499  18,538    26,183 

    This is a hefty amount of money in anyone's book, and just about the TCO of my boat over the last 3 yrs, including purchase and a major refit. Evidently, the largest cost item is one's (or Robert's in this case) labour, so will depend on the assumptions he used to calculate it.

    Nausikaa already has unstayed masts, so I don't need to do any major work there. The sails, I rather have them built by a pro. I can't sow a button competently, let alone a sail panel.

    For the other items, I computed materials for 2 sails , plus contracted labour, plus half own labour which I figure will have to pay to contractors and hired help anyway. The other half I supply myself.

    My budget comes then to (in GBP):

       materials  labour
     sails  1,534.5 3,165 
     yard  1,101  
     battens  765  
     rig assembly  1,134  6.693.75
       Grand total  14,393.3

    Which is still higher (though within variance I've come to expect in spending money on a boat...) than the initial estimate of GBP 10K I was given by a supplier for the complete job, including rig assembly. 

    Does this looks reasonable?. Any sanity check from those who've done it will be most welcome!

    Thanks

    Rafa   
  • 09 Apr 2015 09:20
    Quote
    Reply # 3288466 on 3164104
    Anonymous

    Robert, the actions you took will allow anyone to see the gallery at the foot of your public profile page, and open the photos there.  To make a link direct to the gallery in your public profile page you need to first view the public page by clicking "My directory profile" and copy its URL.  Otherwise, if you are looking at your private profile page (where you can access various settings and add photos, etc), the URL you copy will not be accessible by the public membership.  This has caught out quite a few members, so no need to feel bad.
<< First  < Prev   1   2   3   Next >  Last >> 
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software