Modern Junk Class Design

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  • 29 Oct 2014 07:18
    Reply # 3136413 on 3134033

    John,

    I think that perhaps a length of 10 metres is a little too big. It's no accident that in the Western yacht racing world, the Folkboat and the J24, for example, have developed large fleets in many places. The very name, "Folkboat", points the way - what you are aiming for is "A boat for the people". Boats of this size are easier to own and to manage, in all respects, maintenance, mooring etc being so much less than for a 10 metre boat. Yet they are more fun for short-distance round-the-cans weekend racing than a bigger boat. I suggest that you aim for a 7 or 8 metre boat that looks like a junk, but takes full advantage of all the advances in naval architecture that have been made over the last century. Small is beautiful, less is more, as Annie would say.

    Much as I like the soft wing sail, it doesn't seem appropriate for this boat, since you are aiming to revive interest in China's maritime heritage. I think the rig type should be recognisably derived from a traditional planform, if it is to be a one-design rig; but actually, I would suggest that the hull should be one-design, and the rig should be restricted. That is, set a maximum area and a few other rules, and then encourage development.

  • 27 Oct 2014 18:20
    Reply # 3134623 on 3134295
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Mark Thomasson wrote:

    John,

    If this takes wings it could be a great step forward to acceptance of the modern junk rig.

    One thought:  Is there already a Bermudan rigged class with a suitable hull?  If so develop this, then it could show better the JR advantages.

    Best wishes


    Mark,

    When I chose the Marieholm IF for the next conversion project, a big argument for it was that there has been built over 3600 of them. This should make it easy to find boats to race against, at least in Scandinavia. In addition, a well made and detailed as-built sailplan would let an awful lot of people convert their boats without much head-scratching.

    Arne

    PS To John: I actually started Hull no.1 a few days before you showed us the link to that building video, but the video surely inspired me to finish it to the present stage.

    Last modified: 27 Oct 2014 18:28 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 27 Oct 2014 14:24
    Reply # 3134322 on 3134033
    Mark, The hull is being designed, there is no Bermudan hull to compare with. I think the market prefer a sexy racer look. Arne's hull is interesting too, probably fall in love with the Men Ding Zi shown in the earlier video. I am looking for a simple soft wing sail which can operate without hydraulic. John
  • 27 Oct 2014 13:26
    Reply # 3134295 on 3134033

    John,

    If this takes wings it could be a great step forward to acceptance of the modern junk rig.

    One thought:  Is there already a Bermudan rigged class with a suitable hull?  If so develop this, then it could show better the JR advantages.

    Best wishes

  • 27 Oct 2014 11:11
    Reply # 3134226 on 3134033
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    The Hull no.1 was mainly meant as an exercise in using the QCAD program. Although this program was great for drawing sails, I found it to be a struggle to draw a boat with it. However, its limitations (read: my limitations with it) keeps me from drawing complicated lines which would be difficult to build. After all I had home-building in mind, and as far as I can remember, I never got better than a “Good” (= C?) in carpentry at school.

    The design was to emulate the narrow and heavily ballasted Folkboat, but with a bit longer waterline. In addition, the trapeze sections and flaring topsides should give additional hull stability, so the ballast ratio was reduced to just below 50%. The Hull no.1 is still of moderate beam (2.1m in wl.), so I think it needs an outside, ballasted keel of some sort.

    The keel I have drawn is only 1.10m deep with a horizontal sole. I thought it could be made from a flat steel plate with a flange at the top to fit with the hull, and with ballast from iron, lead or concrete (less good) bolted to the lower end. This keel may not be the fastest, but would make the boat easy to handle, both afloat and ashore. It will not need an expensive cradle when being laid up ashore, just a 'chain cradle' as the one I fitted to my ‘Ingeborg’, recently.
    Any other keel type could be chosen, including one of 0.8m draft with a centreboard fitted inside it (no cb. trunk inside the hull).

    The rudder is meant to be a big one, possibly deeper than the keel, and thus of some sort of swing-up type.

    Arne

     

  • 27 Oct 2014 07:47
    Reply # 3134186 on 3134033
    Deleted user

    Arne

    That would be a great class boat - could be very cheaply and quickly built in plywood, too, to encourage participation, and a good testbed for rig variations as you say.

    The traditionalist in me would like to see a deep lifting rudder balanced by a centre/daggerboard forward rather than the longish shallow keel! Then we could have fun seeing if they really made the junk hull work!

  • 26 Oct 2014 23:32
    Reply # 3134049 on 3134033
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi John

    A while ago I made my first CAD design study for a junk, being 7.00m in the waterline. As you can see I went for a pram type, as I think these hulls should make good sailboats. The boat is meant for plywood construction. As it mainly consists of circular arcs and straight lines it should be easy  and quick to build. Any keel or rudder could be used, but with at least 1000kg ballast. An ordinary JR (sloop) of some 35 - 40sqm should be good. Later some boats could be fitted with development rigs; wings, aerojunks, split junks and wotnot.

    Just a thought.

    Arne 

    Last modified: 26 Oct 2014 23:35 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 26 Oct 2014 22:37
    Message # 3134033
    My idea of developing a class racing junk in China is to revive the techniques of sailing this remarkable craft which is vanishing in her homeland. The boat will be about 10m LOA using modern materials and technologies . The underwater hull will have a modern racing keel but may have modern style derivatives of junk on the deck hull. The most essential part is to keep the advantages of junk rig such as unstayed mast, full batten sail, easy to reef, easy to gybe balanced sail, sheet to battens, no spinnaker for easy cruising, etc. I am looking for a soft wing sail which should operate on simple parrels system to keep the cost low so that she is affordable by middle-class. Suggestions from the junkies community will be most welcomed.
    Last modified: 26 Oct 2014 22:40 | Anonymous member
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