Ingeborg, Arne's Marieholm IF

  • 03 Dec 2015 20:36
    Reply # 3673271 on 3032430

    Combined with your written instructions, these photos make a great resource for people who want to make their own cambered junk sails.  It made me feel that perhaps I could manage to build a sail with this system, though the lack of spatial awareness in my vision would be a challenge, and painful joints wouldn't help!  The major drawback for me is that I don't have anywhere to lay the sail out.  These reasons had a lot to do with me getting my new sail built professionally.  I just want to go sailing now for as long as I can.

    Looking at your sail, it is obviously much more strongly built than my damaged one.  Whether that had something to do with its troubles, I don't know, but I suspect it at least contributed to the sail falling apart.

    Your sailplan is almost the same size as 5 tonne Arion's!  That boat is really going to fly!

  • 03 Dec 2015 17:03
    Reply # 3672962 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Graham,
    the sail was completed early, in January  -  constructing a sail is the easy bit. Here is a 44-photo album, showing the process. And here is the sail plan. 

    Arne

    Edit 20230131: Sorry, the album has been lost.
    Last modified: 31 Jan 2023 22:35 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 02 Dec 2015 19:45
    Reply # 3671409 on 3032430

    Nice photos Arne.  I've always had a soft spot for the Folkboat.  I could see myself with a fibreglass Folkboat (rather than a fin-keeled daysailer), when the time comes, as it will sooner or later, for me to part with Arion and live ashore.  I cannot wait to see her sailing with her beautiful junk rig.  Will you make the sail this winter, so you can just pop the mast in and go sailing next summer?  Anyway, good luck!

  • 02 Dec 2015 16:14
    Reply # 3671072 on 3032430

    Great job Arne!! She is a beauty! Reminds me very much of my Storfidra.

  • 26 Nov 2015 11:03
    Reply # 3661481 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Project update

    It has been quiet around the Ingeborg project, this summer. For several reasons and excuses, the progress was slow. One ‘problem’ was that it was still so fun to sail in Frøken Sørensen. Luckily, I managed to get past two major obstacles  -  fitting the mast step and the partners, when temperatures finally became safe for working with epoxy.

    The mast step was, as on Broremann and Frøken Sørensen, made as two parts; the mast sole and the mast step collar. The mast sole is just a flat plate, firmly attached to the hull. It slopes very gently aft to aid draining. The mast step collar, being a little smaller than the sole, is then trial-fastened with two screws, and the mast is then stepped. If the mast rake is correct, I just add more screws (and/or epoxy) to secure the collar and seal any screw holes.  If not, I move the mast step collar back and forth until I get it right. This method saves me a lot of worrying, and also lets me make the partners with much less clearance to the mast. There will be 20mm clearance around Ingeborg’s 150mm mast.

    Now I have put a new photo album (“Ingeborg, work on rig and interior”) among my other member’s albums, where the process of fitting the mast step and partners has been described (22 photos, so far). Hopefully the captions under each photo are helpful.

    Have a look here.
    (Sorry, the whole album has been lost)

    Cheers, Arne

     

    Last modified: 06 Apr 2023 13:28 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 11 Feb 2015 21:59
    Reply # 3223785 on 3223549
    Arne Kverneland wrote:No I haven't weighed it, but I have lifted it. I guess it weighs thirty-some kilos. You cannot expect that a freestanding mast will be nearly as light as a stayed mast. I will weigh the JR mast when I have finished it. 
    I think you might be surprised, actually, Arne.  Although my mast was too long for me to carry, I could easily carry both sections separately and had no problem manhandling the mast when it was assembled, apart from its length.  When I did the conversion from bermudan, I reckon that I actually took weight off the boat and that was borne out by the fact that she floated higher.  (Quite noticeable because the whole changeover took place with the boat in the water.) The mast was probably much the same weight as my wood/alloy one (quite a lot longer, of course) and when you take into account the weight of the rigging, boom and winches, you see the kilos adding up.  The 2 sails were a lot heavier than the one for the junk.  The latter weighed 7 kilos - I carried it as hand luggage on the flight from Auckland to Nelson, trying to look nonchalant because the limit was 5 kilos.  I don't know what the mainsail or jib weighed, but they were quite a grunt to lift.  And then there was the weight of the roller furler gear.  So all in all, there's a lot more to consider than merely the weight of the mast.
    Last modified: 11 Feb 2015 21:59 | Anonymous member
  • 11 Feb 2015 16:49
    Reply # 3223570 on 3032430
    Deleted user

    Arne,

    I agree as the two rigs remain upright by two entirely different mechanisms. 

    Similarly, the JR mast would be shorter and the JR would be able to carry greater sail area than the BR.

    I was just interested in keeping track of all three of these differences as we convert more and more BR to JR. 

    i.e., it will be interesting to see how close in weight they can become before the JR mast  fails just as it is to see how much more sail it can carry before it is over canvassed.

    Dennis

  • 11 Feb 2015 16:33
    Reply # 3223549 on 3223442
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    dennis gibbons wrote:

    Arne,

    Have you weighed the BR mast and attending standing rigging of the IF?  It would be useful when considering the JR replacement mast.

    I know you already have the BR mast length.

    Dennis


    No I haven't weighed it, but I have lifted it. I guess it weighs thirty-some kilos. You cannot expect that a freestanding mast will be nearly as light as a stayed mast. I will weigh the JR mast when I have finished it.

    Arne

     Edit 20170603: An IF owner told me that his original rig weighed in at 43kg.

    Last modified: 02 Jun 2017 09:36 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 11 Feb 2015 14:25
    Reply # 3223442 on 3032430
    Deleted user

    Arne,

    Have you weighed the BR mast and attending standing rigging of the IF?  It would be useful when considering the JR replacement mast.

    I know you already have the BR mast length.

    Dennis

  • 30 Jan 2015 20:04
    Reply # 3214321 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    First of all, I am beginning to dislike the SA/disp factor. The only advantage with it is that you can scale a drawing up or down, hull, sail and all, and the SA/displacement will be constant.

    The real  “SA/displacement”; SA[sqm]/weight [metric tons]is rarely mentioned, much in contrast to with cars and aeroplanes. It is this SA/weight that tells about the agility of a vessel, sailing, rolling or flying.

    I can follow David T’s thinking about ocean voyagers, to some degree, but the chosen SA/disp should also vary with the displacement.

    On a 2.5ton boat a SA/disp=21 will mean a SA of just 39sqm.
    On a 6 ton boat the same SA/disp of 21 would call for a SA=69sqm.
    While a 2.5 ton Contessa 26 could easily be handled with 39sqm sail, the six-tonner with 69sqm would be  more than a handful (to me, at least), unless electric halyard and sheet winches are fitted. In addition, short boats need to be pushed more to eat miles, than longer boats, so it makes sense to pile one relatively more sail on small boats.

    As for “the problem” with twist and reduced performance with deeply reefed sails; my experience with deep reefing of the Johanna style sail (modified HM sails, really) is that they go remarkably well to windward. The sail can be reefed down to three panels and still retain full peaking of the yard. Moreover, the lee topping lift then seems to limit the twist to just the right one to create some camber-through-twist. Last summer I had 37 outings in my Frøken Sørensen, about half of the trips alone. Without a crew she is quite tippy and cannot set more than three panels when close-hauled in F5. This means that I get some practice in reefing and even deep reefing. Even Johanna has been sailed deeply reefed many times, and seems to thrive well. Still, I am glad for every square inch of sail I have for light weather. I guess I need full sail almost half the time in Frøken Sørensen, and half of that time I could have used more sail. BTW, her SA/disp.=24.5  -  and she has no ballast...

    Arne

     

    Last modified: 31 Jan 2015 16:06 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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