A new rig for Mehitabel

  • 04 Jul 2024 17:08
    Reply # 13378373 on 13377772
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul,

    you sound like a younger version of myself  -  “we can always reef”.  However, I soon learned that one has to live with the mast, no matter how the wind is howling. In the early days, I knew little about mast scantlings, and the book Practical JR advocated oversize wooden masts, so with my Malena I was pushing my luck.
    From what I learned there, I concluded that it was best to avoid very hi-AR sails which required tall masts. Instead, I made the sails moderately low, but with a tallish 3-panel top section which reached much higher than the mast. Later, I learned more about masts and how to keep their weight below 3% of the boat’s displacement. I still kept that tallish top section, although nowadays I have learnt to increase the mast balance by lowering the yard angle. This last step may look insignificant, but I think it was quite a leap  -  to me at least. 

    I guess moderation in all things sums it up...
    (..I can’t believe I wrote that...)

    Arne


    Malena in 1999  -  a sail with a boat attached to it...

    Last modified: 04 Jul 2024 20:00 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 04 Jul 2024 16:11
    Reply # 13378355 on 13377772

    Hi Arne,

    I definitely see your points. However, only if a boat got a lot of canvas does not mean that the skipper needs to push it to its limits (like I am doing right now with Ilvy). You can always reef down, especially with a junk. Sailing a slightly overcanvased JR gives you the opportunity to point high and be fast - if you want it. If not, there is no downfall of sailing with some panels reefed, is there? To make my point again: having an overcanvased junk sail does not mean that you are sailing overcanvased. It only means you can set more sail in low winds (or higher, too) if needed and wanted.

    There is more to it: if you are undercanvased, you might tack less easily, you might fire up that engine earlier in low winds, you might just have less trust in the sailing abilities of your rig - at least that is what we experience, also in comparison to other junks we meet along the road.


    Yes, we are heavily laden! About 10 cm lower now than in daysailing mode. It happens when you have such a roomy, well designed boat as the Maxi 77 and provision for 5 months... Still, just yesterday we overtook a brandnew Beneteau 37 on a beam reach. The owner just smiled at us and took his hat. However, speed is not much more than thin air. What is more important is that we are able to sail through passages where every other sailboat around us hectically takes down its canvas and starts motoring!

    We met dozens of Maxi 77's. Unfortunately only in harbour. There is yet one to come which sails with us.

  • 04 Jul 2024 16:02
    Reply # 13378353 on 13377772

    I turned 72 in April, and will be at least 73, probably older, by the time this project is finished, due to financial restraints (unless my two-volume memoir / selective history of cruising under sail, Last Days of the Slocum Era, becomes the most unexpected best-seller of 2024!).  I had a 35 sq m sail on Arion and it was big enough!  Also this is a very easily driven boat, compared to 7.3m, 5-ton Arion, aboard which I happily cruised for 23 years.  I am a pure cruising sailor, who cares little for how fast I am going.  Like the serene junkmen of the Yangtze Kiang, I will get there when I get there (See G. R. G. Worcester's delightful book, The Junkman Smiles).  I am just a vagabond not really a yachtsman.  Also, I mostly sail with the seasons, downwind, and this 40 sq m junk sail will be more than powerful enough for me, I am sure.  I'll need a winch to haul it up!  It looks pretty good to me.

  • 04 Jul 2024 15:30
    Reply # 13378345 on 13377772
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul,

    If you have another look, you will see that my second suggested sail is 40.1sqm, not 35. That is not so bad for a boat meant for single-handed offshore cruising. It gives a SA/disp. =16.0.

    It also has a bit to do with age. My first junk-rigged boat (1990) had 32sqm on a 1400kg boat (Albin Viggen, Malena)! Nowadays, having rounded 70, I tend to take it a bit more easy. However, if Graham starts shouting for more sail, he will get more sail, no problem. Remember though, there is a bit more to it than square-metres. Look how that ‘little’ JR is both taller and much wider in the top than the Bermudan rig. In addition, my hunch, after years of fiddling and sailing sloop JRs, is that N square-metres in a single JR give more drive than N sqm  of mainsail+jib on a BR, in particular with masthead rigs.

    For the mostly coastal cruising you and Toni do these days with that Maxi 77, I think big is beautiful, when it comes to rigging. I notice that your ship is quite heavily laden, but you still are very quick. Have you met any other Maxi 77 yet?

    Arne


    Last modified: 04 Jul 2024 15:39 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 04 Jul 2024 14:41
    Reply # 13378333 on 13377772

    Hi Graham,

    I truely have nothing to add to the design and calculations of Arne, except for one thing: When determining the sail area for my Ilvy, I chose a bit more than the combined area of main and genoa instead of main and jib. We carry about 35m2 on a 25" boat, and it is fast while safe. Until now, I did not even once regret it! Even more, if I reef two panels in although the weather doesn't demand it, to have the same area as main and jib, our angle to windwards increases drastically! (Playing the devils advocat: might undercanvassing even be one of the reasons for the bad junk windward reputations?)

    So, why chose only 35m2 on a 32" boat? You can always reef.


    Arne, what do you think?


    Cheers,

    Paul


    PS: please keep in mind that I only built one junk sail by now, with heavily design aid by Arme, and cruised with it for only two months up to now. My experience might be quite limited, and I would advise to also listen to more experienced ones

  • 04 Jul 2024 14:15
    Reply # 13378325 on 13377772

    Arne, once again your mathematical prowess outshines me.  Because I can't do the calculations, I thought the 34.8 sq m sail area included the genoa.  Now, taking a closer look at the sail areas of your drawing with a working jib, I can see that that you have shown a combined sail area of 34.1 sq m.  That is close enough!

  • 04 Jul 2024 12:29
    Reply # 13378304 on 13377772
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Graham,
    remember that most of that big Genoa sits aft of the mast so will rather push the CE aft. The shown rig with a jib which I just made up, probably has the most forward-set CE.
    Btw. SailboatData.com says that the sail area is 34.8sqm, so that 10-second jib must have hit quite close.

    Arne


  • 04 Jul 2024 12:02
    Reply # 13378300 on 13377772

    Hi Arne,

    That looks right for that jib, though I couldn't do the maths!  Is it one you drew, or is it the official working jib of the design?  My ideas about the CE being forward of the mast were based on the large 150% genoa drawn on the sailplan. If your CE is correct, then the sailplan you have drawn will be ideal.  I really like it.

  • 04 Jul 2024 11:11
    Reply # 13378297 on 13378279
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Graham wrote:Hi Arne!  Thanks for this drawing.  I really like it and this is the best option.  And as you say, it takes the weight out of the bow, which did worry me a bit.  I am going to work with this option.  The only thing I need to work out, is what the CE of the bermudan rig is.  Given the small main and large jib, I am wondering if it might be a bit fwd of the mast.  What do you think?  I am going to try and get some information from the guy who originally built these boats in NZ, Peter Smith.  The designers are both dead now.

    Like this? 


  • 04 Jul 2024 09:15
    Reply # 13378279 on 13378276
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    In response to Graham’s post below, here is a sailplan with the mast through the front half of the hatch. The resulting mast balance of about 24%, and with only 5m battens, should ensure easier steering downwind, without having to shift the sail back and forth.
    Note how much closer the CE sits to the mast on this sailplan.

    Arne

    ( Full size sailplan under Arnes's sketches, section 7-43 )

    Hi Arne!  Thanks for this drawing.  I really like it and this is the best option.  And as you say, it takes the weight out of the bow, which did worry me a bit.  I am going to work with this option.  The only thing I need to work out, is what the CE of the bermudan rig is.  Given the small main and large jib, I am wondering if it might be a bit fwd of the mast.  What do you think?  I am going to try and get some information from the guy who originally built these boats in NZ, Peter Smith.  The designers are both dead now.
    Last modified: 04 Jul 2024 09:36 | Anonymous member
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software