Ground tackle

  • 14 Jul 2013 03:04
    Reply # 1339745 on 1337294
    10mm chain for a boat of Gecko's size would be way over the top.  Quite a few boats of our size anchor on 6mm chain quite happily.  I reckon I'm pretty conservative about my anchor gear and am very happy with my choice.  These little, light boats are kind on their anchor gear.  I have watched Fantail in squally conditions, and she very rarely stretches her chain out - there is no need of a snubber: I've not once felt her snatch at her chain.

    The breaking load on chain always seems very little compared with nylon, for example, but as Graham said, we are not talking about suspending the boat, let alone dropping it and waiting for the chain to take the load.  I would rather carry more 8mm on my boat than less 10 mm.  With lots of chain out, you rarely put much load on the anchor, because the chain has to be dragged sideways and then pulled in a straight line to the anchor before any load is put on it. 

    I have known people lost boats anchored to tested chain.  In truth, chain is never tested until you've been through a few gales.  I have anchored in hurricane force winds - not something I would describe as fun - but in all my years of sailing am pleased to say that I've never encountered anything more than about 70 knots.  I can't conceive of being anchored in 100 knots winds and I think most of us would never need to legislate for such an eventuality.
  • 14 Jul 2013 00:58
    Reply # 1339721 on 1337294
    In Australia, the only chain recommended for anchoring boats is a tested short-link chain called Grade L, and it has the letter L stamped on every link.  A lot of people here use cheaper Chinese chain that is not tested but I don't trust it. 

    I am an empirical seaman, couldn't quote engineering specs to save my life, but I just look, read and talk to experienced sailors to learn what to do, with anchoring and everything else.  As I understand it, anchoring is different to suspending your boat from a chain (its lift strength).  The boat is afloat and the forces on the chain are quite different.  The biggest risk is snatching loads, which is why I always tie a 3m nylon rope to the chain once the anchor is set and I have enough scope out, then veer some more chain until the nylon snubber is taking the load and the chain is hanging in a loop.  That way the nylon absorbs the load.  If you have plenty of chain out it is also hanging down and it takes some force to lift it up until it it stretched out straight, as well as putting a horizontal load on your anchor (catenary).  This absorbs a great deal of the load.  Eric and Susan Hiscock's primary anchoring system aboard Wanderer 111 used 80 metres of 8mm chain, attached to a 35 lb CQR anchor.  They also used a 10 kilo weight on a traveller to slide down the chain if they thought it needed more catenary.  They were deeply conservative sailors and sailed more than twice around the world with this set up, 110,000 ocean miles in total.
  • 13 Jul 2013 19:32
    Reply # 1339569 on 1337294
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

                                                               Stavanger, Saturday

    I just checked Wikipedia and found that quite ordinary low-carbon steel has a yield strength of at least 240MPa ( about 24kp/sqmm) while stainless steel has a strength of about 520MPa.

    The two halves of an 8mm chain link have a square section of around 100sqmm (added up). This indicates that the strength of an 8mm chain should roughly be somewhere between 2.4 and 5.2tons (or just a bit less).

    Now I found data from a chain factory (Kragerø, Norway) on the web:

    http://www.framlink.no/upload/files/pdf/1176451347_gruppe1.pdf

    It appears that a galvanised chain version called Fram Alloy Hot dip Galvanised has a breaking strength (8mm) of 6.5tons and a test force of 3.9tons

    Even their plain galvanised soft iron chain has a breaking strength of 2.4ton and test strength of 1.3ton ( max legal working load is 0.6ton).

    It would surprise me if not the 8mm chain, even the soft iron version, would not hold that little dory, Gecko, although I would have aimed for the stronger one.

    The 8mm chain is 1.3kg/m while the 10mm is 2.2kg/m. If you have let out 30m of chain, you will congratulate yourself that you only went for 8mm each time you are to haul up the hook.

    Cheers, Arne

    Last modified: 14 Jul 2013 09:47 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 13 Jul 2013 15:23
    Reply # 1339454 on 1337294
    I have done a bit more research.  I found that Rocna recommend 8mm chain for a storm anchor for a boat of Gecko's size, though a chain of higher specification than I looked at when I came up with 12mm.  Still, going backwards from the safe working load of the specified chain to the expected load, it's less than half of what I got from the Complete Anchoring Handbook, and a little below just the wind load at 60kn quoted in there.

    Still, I guess a better grade of 8mm chain is a better choice than a basic grade and 12mm.

    So I searched for better chain in Norway.  If a web site said anything at all, I found no reference to grade 40 or high test chain, or to grade 70 or transport chain, only to DIN 766.  I could not find the specifications for that norm, so I have no idea whether it says anything about mechanical strength, or whether it is limited to specifying the dimensions, so that the chain fits onto a windlass.  I have found an Italian supplier for grade 70 chain.
    Last modified: 13 Jul 2013 15:40 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Jul 2013 15:38
    Reply # 1338925 on 1337294
    Deleted user
    To add to the data base, Ivory Gull, 28' LOD and 5 tons or so displacement, has a 16kg Bruce with 70m of 8mm chain. This lot has held perfectly well on the few occasions that I've used it in both muddy and sandy bottoms. I haven't anchored in strong winds (and as a day/weekend yachtsman would generally prefer not to) though the tidal streams round here run at up to four knots. I'm deeply prejudiced against having rope anywhere in the anchoring system, except for lashing the bitter end to the clench, and have never used rope to anchor anything bigger than a dinghy.
    Last modified: 12 Jul 2013 15:39 | Deleted user
  • 12 Jul 2013 15:12
    Reply # 1338904 on 1337294
    Deleted user
    Ruffles Spray has had a Rocna 34kg anchor since 2006, it's attached to 100 meters of 10mm chain, Ruffles Spray displaces 20 metric tons. We have had winds of up to 100  knots and have never had any problems with this setup. 
  • 12 Jul 2013 12:01
    Reply # 1338802 on 1337294
    Thank you all.  I have done very little anchoring with Lexia.  She has a large old CQR (not exactly sure of the size but 35 lbs rings a bell).   However the deck at the bows is very crowded, not least because the anchor is lashed to the deck on chocks.  A major improvement would be to achieve a good stowage on the bow roller which the modern anchors seem to be more suited to.  However, that might need to bow roller to be altered, not least to have taller cheek plates.  Etc, etc, ....
  • 12 Jul 2013 11:07
    Reply # 1338800 on 1337294
    Arion displaces about 5 tons and I use 8mm short-link tested chain as my main anchor rode, with a nylon snubber to absorb shock loads, attached to a 15 kg Rocna anchor.  As long as you have plenty of scope (3 to 1 in very deep water, up to 10 to 1 in shallow water),  you will never part it.  I have dragged a couple of times in gale-force winds when the bottom proved unstable but have ridden out two cyclones with winds over 80 knots in sheltered bays with a good mud bottom.  On both occasions the boat was getting knocked down in the gusts but the anchor and chain gave no trouble.
  • 11 Jul 2013 22:29
    Reply # 1338575 on 1337294
    Patric is quite right here.  I'm not sure what Mr Rocna's problem is because the anchors are similar rather than clones.  But I do know that a lot of the later Rocnas have had problems with quality control.  The Manson is still made in NZ and while no doubt a Rocna (not made in China!) is just as good, I have personal experience of the Manson, which is why I was recommending it.  And it's cheaper :-)

    BTW I live at anchor - not on a mooring or in a marina, so it's been well tested.
  • 11 Jul 2013 14:48
    Reply # 1338171 on 1337294
    Deleted user
    I'd take that with a pinch of salt. Rocna vs Manson has been discussed to death on the ybw fora (aka the anchor wars). Interestingly Rocna themselves had quite a quality problem after moving production to China but that seems to have been sorted by now. Both are very good anchors and certainly an improvement over ye olde coastal quick. The first thing I ever added to Tin Hau was a German Buegel anchor,the original roll bar design (beware off cheap knock offs though!)
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