Rerigging a traditional Cape Cod Catboat

  • 04 Jun 2014 06:14
    Reply # 3001142 on 1314559

    I think your forestay would be neither use nor ornament, frankly.  If you sheet in the sail before you go onto the foredeck, you can hold on to the front of the sail, or the parrels if you go down the (usually) starboard side.


  • 04 Jun 2014 00:38
    Reply # 3001063 on 1314559
    Deleted user

    I remember reading about cat boats and their fore stays some time ago, 

    I think on Phil Bolger's 101 Sailing Rigs. I recall (perhaps imperfectly) Mr. Bolger stating that fore 

    stays started showing up on recreational cat boats around the time that Bermuda-rigged yachts

    where becoming popular, and he felt their inclusion in some designs was more for commercial/

    aesthetic appeal than for any practical purpose. I remember him saying the stay was most frequently

    used as a hand-hold by by crew who needed to stand on those tiddly fore decks to handle anchors,

    mooring buoys etc. My guess is that the steep angle between mast head and stem head would 

    minimise their usefulness in countering the forces generated by the sail, it's sheet, etc.


  • 03 Jun 2014 21:13
    Reply # 3000979 on 1314559
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi Guy

    70g/sqm  sounds light, but it depends of what the material consists of. I would have done this test: Make a cut in the cloth and then try to grab the edges of the hole with both hands and  rip it. If it is hard to rip it, then I may give it a shot. Just remember to make the edges strong (proper boltrope from rope or webbing).

    However, you will spend 40 - 50hrs on the job. Are you sure it will not be an idea to go for a better canvas which will last for some years?

    Anyway, good luck!

    Arne

    Last modified: 03 Jun 2014 21:18 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 03 Jun 2014 18:56
    Reply # 2998956 on 1314559
    Deleted user

    Well I am finally back from the USA and can continue my sail project. My first task ( pleasure) is to congratulate and  thank Arne for the additional chapters to "The BOOK"  Particularly as my research has lead me to choose Arne's sail method and I have sourced some 6m long 50mm diameter  aluminium tube with 2mm wall thickness which will suits Arnes recommendations for a sail mmade with 5m long battens . I pretty much fit the 1.8AR master sail in the chapter . I just need to find some experimental (cheap ) cloth for the test sail . I cant find any 240g/sqm ripstop on the net in Europe . Can anyone tell me if 70Grm/sqm ripstop would hold up for a season of coastal cruising ?? ( I would then redo the sail in something more substantial. Any other ideas would be welcome Sourcing in mainland europe ( France),

    Thanks for all the input so far.

    cheers


    Guy

  • 10 Jul 2013 08:03
    Reply # 1337161 on 1314559
    Deleted user
    Thanks for the international set of replies , the internet truly brings meaning to the      expression " arm chair sailor" . I shall continue with confidence..
    I will ask the architeect for my boat -Ted Brewer- about the forestay and relay any  gems here. 
    In answer to your questions /comments - the mast on my catboat is 7 inches diameter max and tapers very slowly starting well above the deck. It is sold douglas pine and weighs about 130 kgs! ( she sails well though in seas ) . The boat displaces 2.5 tons  empty.
    I have procured the PBO article on the Reddish approach if anyone wants it ( can I upload it to the technical files ? copywright issues ??.
    I started ripping timber for the spars yesterday and found a first potential supply of bamboo - happiness !
    cheers

    Guy Marlow
  • 09 Jul 2013 22:49
    Reply # 1336879 on 1314559
    Deleted user
    Tuesday San Francisco

    Arne - you beat me to it.  I am new to junk rigs but have sailed on cat and Bermuda rigs.  The forestay would help offset the bending moment from the mainsheet/boom combination that is developed when sailing close-hauled.  This certainly happens - and is a tuning aid in Bermuda rigs.  And I assume, that a junk rig will not develop similar loads, so it should not be needed.  On the other hand, the forestay may also help keep the mast in the below-deck mast step by providing constant compression.  This should be looked at.  Ironically, the bolts that hold my masts in the mast step are called.....  Bermuda bolts  :)

    Erik
    trying to get my prop shaft coupling connected to the engine again
  • 09 Jul 2013 14:10
    Reply # 1336462 on 1314559
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

                                                                      Stavanger, Tuesday

    The gaff cat rig with such a long boom puts a hard bending moment on the mast when fully close-hauled. This is because the only way to control (reduce) the twist is to use a sheet traveller and harden in the sheet. By using a fore-stay one may save an inch or two on the mast’s diameter.

    I cannot prove it, but I am almost certain that the junkrig stresses the mast less hard in the same conditions so will not need the forestay. BTW, what is the present mast diameter and the displacement of you catboat?

    The best would have been to make a new mast (later, when you have found that you like the rig). This mast can be given a straight conical taper and thus save topweight.

    Good luck!

    Arne

  • 09 Jul 2013 09:27
    Reply # 1336365 on 1314559
    Deleted user
    I'm, no designer either, but  agree with Annie. The fore-stay can't be doing much to support the mast

    If you type 'bamboo battens' into the search box at the top of this page (we can only search the Technical and General fora) you will find some topics of interest.

    Some of the old magazines , now downloadable, have articles by Vincent Reddish which may help - they are indexed though it's a bit tedious trawling through them.

    Incidentally that Kingfisher that my daughter sails in the Alps was previously owned by Vincent Reddish. She has the standard Kingfisher rig but I believe Vincent was planning to experiment with it before his family had to sell her.
    Last modified: 09 Jul 2013 09:35 | Deleted user
  • 09 Jul 2013 01:17
    Reply # 1336040 on 1335744
    Guy Marlow wrote:1.I want to move the CE a foot or so forward of the CLR to combat the current weather helm.

    Guy, I am not a designer, but I've done quite a few miles under junk rig.  I could be wrong, but I think you will find that a junk sail on your existing mast should work well.  Not only does the sail have balance, but its ease of reefing makes it easy to keep the helm to a minimum.

    The biggest mistake that most newcomers to junk rig make, is to reef too late, particularly going downwind.  With an essentially unstayed, gaff rig, you will be used to good performance off the wind, but because of your reefing issues, will have had to cope with a lot of weather helm.  With junk rig, you can reef right down and still find the boat doing nearly hull speed.  nearly everyone who has complained about their weather helm with junk rig, downwind, has found that early reefing eliminates it.

    5.I want to reduce the sail area to about 300sqft from the current 370 for a quieter life.

    The sail's good manners mean that this is unnecessary and you might appreciate the extra area in light airs: however, reducing the sail area might help with points 2, 3 and 4.

     it seems that I will need to remove the currently fitted forestay ( see plan in illustrations section) . I am confident of the build strength of the mast and partners but if anyone knows of a discussion on the role of such forestays , I would be interested in reading up. 

    I'm sure that the only reason you need a forestay is to hang a pointy sail on it.

    (I think you were typing within the boundaries all along, because your posting looked fine to me.  Wild Apricot+/- our individual servers can produce eccentric results on occasion.)
  • 08 Jul 2013 19:04
    Reply # 1335744 on 1314559
    Deleted user
    thanks for all the feedback, I have now spent some time reading the good words of  Arne, PJR, Dr Reddish article in PBO . I am moving towards a first pass trial using the D Dr Reddish approach and sailplan which accomplishes my requirements. As Arne   pointed out , these are somewhat in conflict.
    1.I want to move the CE a foot or so forward of the CLR to combat the current weather helm.
     2. I want to lower the CE vertically for the same reason
      3.I want to bring the boom back a long way to avoid strangling the helmsperson each time we go about.
      4 I want to use the existing gaff throat tackle to raise the yard  and have enough    swing for the yard . 
      5.I want to reduce the sail area to about 300sqft from the current 370 for a quieter life.
     it seems that I will need to remove the currently fitted forestay ( see plan in illustrations section) . I am confident of the build strength of the mast and partners but if anyone knows of a discussion on the role of such forestays , I would be interested in reading up.
     Does anyone know what diameter bamboo battens Dr Reddish used for his 17 foot battens ?( my design calls for the same length) I am going to have to find a bamboo supplier here in France ! 
     Hopefully I am typing within the boundaries of the blog page - I am not pasting in..
    cheers
     Guy Marlow

     
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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