Galley alcohol, gas, diesel and induction cookers/ovens

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  • 25 Aug 2024 05:41
    Reply # 13397525 on 1195343

    what is it about junk rig that attracts these ingenious and clever people?  I don't know, but sitting here on the sidelines, I am so grateful that there are people with the curiosity and tenacity to take and idea and follow it through.  Thanks you David and Arne for all you do!

  • 24 Aug 2024 15:53
    Reply # 13397403 on 1195343

    Yes, I'm sure that there's a lot of wasted heat. That's why I made Weaverbird's cooker by mounting a Maxie burner under a saute pan with a large hole in its bottom.

    I've ordered a non-return valve and an inline ball valve that I'll put as close to the burner as possible, to stop the surging and to give better control over the fuel flow. 

    And I suspect that this burner might work as well with a gravity feed tank (rather than the low pressure tank) as does the Maxie, so that's another experiment to try.

    1 file
    Last modified: 24 Aug 2024 20:39 | Anonymous member
  • 24 Aug 2024 14:55
    Reply # 13397388 on 1195343
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David reports that his 3-burner stove brings one litre of water to boil in 6 minutes, and burning 50grams of pure ethanol in the process.
    That made me wonder: The theoretical power  of the burner ends up at

    Pburn= 3681W  (1325kJ in 360 seconds)
    while the absorbed power to raise one litre of water from 20 to 100°C  during the same 6 minutes is

     Pabsorbed = 931W  (335kJ in 360seconds)

    This results in a burner-to-water efficiency og only 931/3681 = 25%

    The efficiency of my setups has varied between well over 40% when using the Alocs kettle, to down in the low thirties with a plain little kettle.

    I will therefore focus more on improving this efficiency. The first step will be to make something similar to what is used on storm kitchens, with a metal jacket around the kettle to direct the flame up and around its sides.

    If David makes use of such tricks, I bet he will boil a litre of water faster than most stoves, and with a reduced fuel consumption

    Good luck, David!

    Arne


  • 23 Aug 2024 14:44
    Reply # 13397059 on 13395092
    I wrote:
    Arne wrote:

    Chinese alcohol burner

    David Ty. points us to a Chinese (low-)pressurised alcohol stove. This made me curious.

    After having played around with the (single) burner’s data, and with my calculator, it appears to be quite good, and faster than my, now slightly de-tuned Origo’s numbers (5:44min to boil 0.5 litre of water)

    However, I think the maker’s claim that it boils 1.6l in 5 minutes, with a fuel consumption of only 200ml/h is a bit over the top. That would call for burner-kettle efficiency of 79%.
    I look forward to read David’s report when he has tested that thing, both at highest and lowest power setting.

    Arne


    I now have an estimated delivery date of 29th August, so I'd better order some bioethanol.

    I ordered the cooker on 15th August, and the package arrived today, 23rd - not bad for delivery time, then. The quality of construction seems to be extremely good.

    I lost no time in putting in 1 litre of 96.6% bioethanol and making a quick cup of tea. Lighting is much the same as with the Maxie burner: let some fuel flow into the burner, turn off, light it, and then wait until the priming fuel is almost gone before turning on again.

    And I mean quick: a 16cm stainless steel pan, about the smallest diameter that will fit on this 3-head burner, containing 0.5litres of water at room temperature, came to a rapid boil in 2:50 minutes at full power.  The flame was bit yellow at full power with no pan on, but clean when the pan went on. However, when I tried to turn down to a simmer, the flame went very yellow. I wonder if I should add some water to the fuel.

    Controllability is quite good, but there is some surging; I think this is because the tube from tank to burner is 1 metre long. A shorter tube, or perhaps a needle valve in line and close to the burner should improve this. In fact, I think this tank is large enough to supply two burners, and a T-junction and then two needle valves might be a way to arrange this. The pan supports are very strongly made from CNC cut stainless steel, and they could easily be screwed down onto a counter top. A circular fiddle rail of metal strip (diameter from 16cm up to 24cm) could be bolted to them, and then you have a workable boat cooker. I'm quite impressed.

    My lightweight camping pan, at 11.5cm diameter, is too small for the pan supports, and the 1-head burner might be a better option for a small single hander's boat with small diameter cookware. This 3-head burner should work well with 20cm - 22cm pans, though.

    Update: it took 50gms of ethanol to boil 1 litre of water in 6 minutes, in the same pan.

    My 20cm stainless steel pressure cooker, containing 1 litre of water, took about 10minutes to come to pressure, but I couldn't get the flame to turn down low enough to just maintain pressure without going yellow. More research needed there.

    Update 2: On my induction hob, on the 1000W setting, a litre of water in the same pan took a little over 7 minutes to boil. So I think that this burner at full power is putting out somewhere around 1200W. 

    3 files
    Last modified: 23 Aug 2024 19:13 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Aug 2024 20:41
    Reply # 13396446 on 1195343
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    The Oriando/Origo stoves. Specifications versus real numbers.

    I’ve had a look at the data and specs of that Oriando 1500/3000stove.
    It appears to be identical to the specs of the Origo  -  and its performance specs are a bit optimistic on the Oriando too:

    According to specs, each burner has a power of  “about 2kW”
    Now, if it burns its entire tank capacity of 1.2litre of pure ethanol  in 4.5hours (as predicted), that should give a theoretical burner power of only 1.56kW.

    The specs also claim that it will bring a litre of water to boil in 6-8 minutes.
    If we adjust it to 8 minutes (= 480s) and start with water at 20°C, the net power to make this happen will be P= 785W.

    In other words, the burner-to-kettle efficiency must be 785W/1560W = 50%.
    These numbers are optimistic.

    Practical experience has shown that if one runs that burner at full pelt, on pure ethanol and with the original flame damper, there soon will be a lot of eye-watering, sour fumes around, and the kettle will be covered in soot.

    I still like this stove.
    In slightly de-tuned mode, with 80% ethanol and modified flame damper, it boils 0.5l water in only a little over 5 minutes, and with very little smell, and no soot around.
    And  -  unlike the Salsa stove that Paul S uses, the Origo doesn’t lose power after a few minutes.

    Good enough for me, as I wrote recently

    Arne


    Last modified: 22 Aug 2024 10:24 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 21 Aug 2024 16:21
    Reply # 13396337 on 1195343
    It's probably only a question of time. Until then, if I can help you and other members out, I'd be happy to buy Oriondo/Origo parts locally and send them in the mail. I happen to live 300m from a ship chandler.
    Last modified: 21 Aug 2024 16:21 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Aug 2024 12:44
    Reply # 13396244 on 13395867
    Anonymous wrote:

    Apparently somebody makes a copy of Origo called Oriondo now. The official website also sells spare parts, and it does mention that its tank is compatible with the old Origo 1500-3000 and 6000 models. The price is about the same as the Dometic tank.

    The website is only in Swedish though, and they don't seem to ship abroad. Maybe there are (or will be) resellers in other countries?

    Website in Swedish

    Website translated to English (Google Translate)

    I'd been trying to track down that manufacturer, thanks for finding it! They do appear to be selling in chandleries in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark but it's beyond me trying to read if they ship anywhere else. Maybe they're expanding their geographic range slowly, I'm amazed a big online chandlery like SVB hasn't started stocking them. 
  • 20 Aug 2024 14:22
    Reply # 13395867 on 1195343

    Apparently somebody makes a copy of Origo called Oriondo now. The official website also sells spare parts, and it does mention that its tank is compatible with the old Origo 1500-3000 and 6000 models. The price is about the same as the Dometic tank.

    The website is only in Swedish though, and they don't seem to ship abroad. Maybe there are (or will be) resellers in other countries?

    Website in Swedish

    Website translated to English (Google Translate)

    Last modified: 20 Aug 2024 22:30 | Anonymous member
  • 20 Aug 2024 06:05
    Reply # 13395806 on 13394524
    David T wrote:And it seems to be possible to get a new tank built to order. 

    OK, I've investigated this.  The tanks are GBP 67.85 each.  If I bought two, the cost of delivery would be GPB 79.99, so a total of GBP 215.69, which is NZD 457.55.  Ouch!!  But I suppose as there is little alternative, I would buy them.

    Thank you Graeme for finding a cooker on Trade Me.

    BTW, for anyone who might be interested keep the link. I don't know how David found it, but if you go to their site and search for them, you end up at a page that says the tanks are discontinued!!

  • 20 Aug 2024 05:45
    Reply # 13395802 on 13395388
    Asmat wrote:

    I've noticed there's a Kenyon 2 burner alcohol cooker, fitted with gimbals and fiddles, described as for parts or not working, on ebay UK. These have a pumped fuel tank, so might be interesting for those with a sense of adventure. The reviews I found on American forums are not very encouraging.


    I'd have been more than happy to use them: most of the issues that people had with this sort of cooker was exactly the same as people have with paraffin, essentially a lack of patience and a reluctance to learn how to use them properly.  I bought one for SibLim when I was building, but unfortunately could find no source of spare parts, so it would only have been a temporary arrangement.
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