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  • 30 Jan 2013 10:59
    Reply # 1193266 on 1192767
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Edward Hooper wrote:
    ...
    For Poole harbour racing Amiina has ftb the same handicap as the other Splinters w/o spinnaker (N.S.)  We have a TMF of 0.711 (whatever that means).
    ....

                                                              Stavanger, Wednesday

    Edward, that sounds good.

    The Splinters, with their masthead Bm rigs, will be slowed down a lot in the 100° wide downwind zone without spinnakers, so a good junkrig should win almost every time against them, with that handicap.

    It is much harder to put a JR on a Nordic Folkboat and expect to win over the originals (same sail area). The Bm-rigged FB has over 70% of her area in the mainsail so does a lot better downwind than masthead-rigged boats. In addition the shape of the main can be tuned for racing, much like on the modern racers. I would of course give a FB a much larger JR than the original 24sqm - say 36-37sqm - but then I am not racing ...

    Back in 1995 a Swede contacted me. He and a friend had a 34’ steel Bm ketch. When replacing that rig with a cambered panel JR (not bigger than the ketch) the ship was transformed and went faster on all legs. So to rub it in; a BM rig that is not tip top is easy to beat. The fleet of modern racers that Ketil has to race against is a much bigger challenge.

    Anyway, good luck!

    Cheers, Arne

    Last modified: 17 Mar 2013 00:20 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 30 Jan 2013 08:15
    Reply # 1193184 on 1101249

    Hi,

    Handicapping is used to make unequal boats able to compete agaist each other, just like Golf players with different level of skills can play together. Handicapping is a difficult business to get "right" because different boats behave differently in various weather conditiones. The newer boats gets a bigger handicap, (must sail faster) than older boats, because they are lighter to drive through the water. Some boats let go of their hull speed and planes in given situationes, and they are dependent of a lot of wind. The funny thing is that they are also doing well in calm weather because of a lot of sails and light weight. With the introduction of CE grading the prescription of strenght in the hull has been standarized to American specifications, The Land of I will sue you, and guess what: the boats have gotten heavier. An X-99 built to todays standard would have weighed in at 4000 kilos instead of the 3000 kgs they display today. Light weigh is also a result of minimum equipment (read comfort) inside, but that suits me fine as there are less things to go wrong. On the lighter side, I installed the electric winch that weigh nearly one ton with a wry look on my face. Nothing gets onboard without being weighed, exept company, they are only estimated and can be of good use in weigh distribution. Note the word company, I dont need crew, but it is nice with company, (some times). Edmond Dantes was an easy boat to give a handicap. Hull speed 7,5 knots, period. Marie G, far more questions asked. A healthy blow, not too steep against the wind for a long time and more boats are struggeling to keep up. To put it like a friend that used to sail a 6,5: To win a race, you got to have the right conditiones. The Swedish LYS system should be based on results from racing, but ended up in mathematics. It is now being reworked in Norway and Sweden to get it more in line with ISAFs handicap rules.

     

  • 29 Jan 2013 21:51
    Reply # 1192767 on 1101249
    Deleted user
    OK, the die is cast and 'Amiina' is entered for the RTI race on 1st June 2013.
    Lots of work to do before that.
    For Poole harbour racing Amiina has ftb the same handicap as the other Splinters w/o spinnaker (N.S.)  We have a TMF of 0.711 (whatever that means).
    There is no official racing in Poole until sometime in March, but at least one, and maybe two of the other Splinters are v. keen to come out 'and play' with Amiina, just as soon as the weather is less wintery.  I shall keep you posted.
    Collecting the Fife rail and the sail cover on Friday.
  • 29 Jan 2013 08:09
    Reply # 1192133 on 1101249

    You and me both, David, or should I say "Too right Blue"?

    The final race positions will not be as useful as the boat for baot speed comparisons, but yes, there is a lot to learn. The RTI will also be interesting, but that will depend very heavily on the weather and the race tactics (or lack of).

    Will we ever find out if the subtile changes in the rig from the original Poppy are better or worse? It's all questions, but hopefully a few answers will come in.

    Cheers,  Slieve

  • 29 Jan 2013 00:50
    Reply # 1191861 on 1101249
    Roll on the start of the racing season in Poole Harbour. I'm very interested to see how Amiina does, boat for boat, against the other Splinters.
  • 29 Jan 2013 00:21
    Reply # 1191853 on 1101249

    Hi Arne

    Look in -General Forum, Cambered Panels and the Split Junk Rig, 22 March 2012 and later in the thread to see info on Talaluh. 

    22 Mar 2012 09:53
    | Reply # 865737 on 856059

    The handicap information I am getting is vague, but 5% was knocked off at the end of the summer season, and apparently a little more since. As the boat is home built, and certainly modified from the original I've no idea of how it should be handicapped, but the point is that with the original handicap and the original commercial junk rig he was always last or second last, and now he's still winning even after the changes.

    Sorry this is sketchy, but I'm off to bed as it's late.

    Cheers,  Slieve

    Last modified: 18 Jun 2024 17:19 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 28 Jan 2013 22:42
    Reply # 1191775 on 1101249
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

                                                                      Stavanger, Monday

    This is interesting Slieve

    What do these cuts in handicaps actually mean? How much faster (or slower) must Frank’s boat actually be (in %) to finish equal with the original boats on corrected time?

    Another question; what boat type is Frank’s boat - I’ve lost track.

    Cheers, Arne

  • 28 Jan 2013 20:24
    Reply # 1191631 on 1101249

    I've just had a call from Frank about his split junk 'Talaluh'. He raced yesterday, singlehanded even thought it was gusting 35 kts, and won again, but by a narrow margin. I think that's his third win in the winter series even though his handicap has been cut again. When they gave him the Comodore's Trophy for winning the summer series last year they also gave him a 5% cut on his handicap, and apparently are still pairing it down further. I suspect they will only be happy when he doesn't win.

    There are some photos available if you Google 'Talaluh junk yacht', but probably the most interesting thing about the photos is the buildings and boats in the background.

    Cheers, Slieve.

    Last modified: 28 Jan 2013 20:29 | Anonymous member
  • 11 Oct 2012 21:29
    Message # 1101249
    Deleted user
    We've a number of members racing their junk-rigged boats regularly, so here, for the benefit of non-members, is a compilation of extracts from a Norwegian  member's race reports:

    Edmund Dantes, first race, November 2011 "Not much to brag about after the first race this season, although it was promising. The wind was 20-24 knots. The running bit was fine, with much more control than the spinnaker users, and more speed that a Hanse 350, even with one of my panels down. Upwind I tried to keep the relative wind angle at 35 degrees, boatspeed 5.4 knots and a VMG 3.7- 4.0 knots - quite respectable, but not really a challenge to the more slippery hulled and superbly sailed yachts."

    Marie G: second race, August 2012 "I had the boat measured, and got a very good LYS of 1.18 for the Stavanger Race, but they put me in the touring class. The day came with very light and flimsy winds, and the starting line was moved away from the congested Vågen. The start was 'Gunder' method, ie the slowest boats start first and the fastest last, figured from the handicap. There was some fighting for space at the finish... Starting first in the touring class I could enjoy looking at it all from the stern. The race was straight out and in. Out was a port tack leg that allowed me to sail straight to the mark without tacking. I rounded the mark in 10th position from 32 contestants, and was looking forward to a reach home. The wind died a bit and became even more flimsy. I really had to work the sheet to keep the sail working with such little wind. I managed to keep my position and came in 10th overall, 2nd in class. At the prizegiving dinner I heard somebody mumbling "letting in the serpent". Big Smile. There was much interest in the rig, and many questions. I told them that the only way to understand the efficiency and easy handling of a junk is to come and sail Marie G."

    Marie G, third race, September 2012 "The race was around Kvitsøy, an archepelago west from Stavanger consisting of a thousand islands and rocks. Very nice to anchor in, and very nice to sail around in a summer breeze. Today it was not a summer breeze, it was 22-26 knots wind, heavy swells from west and confusing waves from the south west, whipped up by the wind. Marie G performed well until we went out to sea. The race was more of taking care of the boat and my seasick wife. Rounding the south end of the islands gave us a good reach with waves from behind. The next rounding mark gave us a dead run - I could use full sail again. We had one yacht behind us, an Albin Nova, and despite her using a spinnaker, she could not catch us, and that was the position going around Tungenes and into sheltered water to the finishing line. I crept up on a few yachts, but could not overtake any of them as they where too far ahead. A good day's sail in heavy seas against the wind, with not a too bad result."

    Marie G, fourth race, September 2012 "Yesterday was a great day for us junkies! On racing day, the weather was too nice. The race started at 1 pm with 4 knots wind from behind. Spinnaker starts are always interesting (of course I don't need one) so, after making a good start, I had a great wiew of the ongoing dramas while I had an easy job, letting out the sail and leaving it to the autopilot. The best sailed boats left me behind, but most of the boats could not sail away from Marie G. Well, I thought, as I turned the mark onto a tight reach - all good things must end. The wind picked up, and it became quite sailable. Spinnakers were now no use, but the junk sail really came into the right groove, and I could play 'catch up and run away from'. The next turning point gave us all a headwind. I did not look forward to that, but I was astonished at how well I could keep up. I was passed by an Elan Impression 384, but managed to keep a First 375 at bay. The route was up a narrow sound, with the wind from the side in catabatic turbulence. I entered the sound as the first of 3 boats. A better demonstration of the superiority of our rig could not be asked for. I gained more than 200 meters lead in a 500 meter sound. No wonder the Chinese used the rig on rivers! From the sound it was a run to the next turning point and a beat to the finishing line. The wind had increased and was now a healthy 18 knots, and Marie G did fine, passing the finishing line as number 6. Having 9 competitors behind left me with a very warm feeling. I am sailing with too high a handicap, but that did not prevent me from taking 1st place in the tourers' class. I have said it before, and now it is proven: if spinnakers are not used, our junk rig is superior!"

    Marie G, fifth and sixth races, October 2012 "The weather was showery, 10-13 degrees Celsius, and cold. The wind was southerly 16-24 knots. As the race would be downwind, the start was organized with a first leg upwind. I came out of the start last, but had a good beat to the turning point and turned as the third from last boat. The next leg was a fairly close reach and Marie G really shone and overhauled three more boats. From the next leg it was a run with the wind - boats not using their spinnakers were left behind. The wind was not strong enough to get MG to surf exept in the squalls. 19 boats started, and only 3 singlehanders. 16 two-handed boats could set their spinnakers and fly. At the end of the race Marie G finished in 15th place, 2nd in the singlehanders class, and looking at the opposition I was quite pleased. The evening was of the social kind, wining and dining, bragging and lying... The next day's race was the sail home - same weather as the day before, which meant a long hard beat - the moment of truth. I managed to keep 3 boats behind me and, after 4 hours and 27minutes I had lost just 20 minutes to 2 boats that I use as a guide (LYS handicaps of 1.21). They are both well sailed, and I figured out that the junkrig of Marie G has a 9.3% handicap when going to windward, and a 4.2% handicap against a spinnaker-sailed boat running. Sailing without spinnaker gives Marie G an advantage of 4-5%, and in a reach even more. I find these numbers very interesting, and they support my vision that 90% of cruisers should be better off with a junkrig, period. It is now a long time to the next race, 2nd of December. That leaves me enough time to wonder whether a split junk rig would perform better..."

    Summing up the season I would like to say that junk rig is highly adaptable to high performance yachts. I had doubts about converting my X-99, but I now have a very sail-able boat under me. She is so beautifully balanced, soothing, manoeuvrable, and whispering fast. Sailing her is truly rewarding.
    Last modified: 15 Feb 2014 17:15 | Anonymous member
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