Help with a Sailplan for a wooden classic / Francis Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14

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  • 03 Feb 2017 19:45
    Reply # 4590044 on 4497913

    Good Morning / Evening David & Chris, 

    Thanks so much for getting back to me. 

    David, it is me who should apologise since I dropped it off and went sailing. Thanks for the sail plan by return! 

    I am so happy to hear that I can keep the mast size and position as it is plus that the battens could be shortened so not to come above my head, sorting out the sheeting too! I like it.   

    I noticed that the top batten has no sheetlets. Assume this is not essential but if wanted I can extend the batten so that I can attach a sheet if I want to. How would I reef just to one panel without top batten sheetlet?

    I hope to hear from Arne too. He sent me his design for Ingeborg, but would be great to see his rig on Francis H. 

    Eventually I would be grateful for a CAD of  the existing sail plan I sent. Just so that I can have them and compare.  Hope it is not too much work. 

    I am in a process of sourcing out a mast. 

    What would be its thickness and profile? 

    Would wooden mast work?  If not is composite OK etc.. 

    Have a fantastic Saturday / Sunday. I am off to do some work on Roger's boat, before Francis turns up (next week). Can't wait. 


  • 03 Feb 2017 10:26
    Reply # 4585085 on 4497913

    Sorry, Linda, I should have got around to this before now.

    I think the weaverbird planform would permit you to put the mast where the bermudan mast is now, without excessive balance area. 17.5 sq m is too much, IMHO. I have drawn a sail of 16 sq m which still gives SA/D = 20. The battens are 2.875m. The mast can be the same length as your sketch, 7m LAP, with a LOA of 8m. The clew of the sail has to be aft of the companionway bulkhead, but there should be enough headroom for you. I think it would be worse to have the clew further forward, as the sheet would then be lower down and would catch you.

    Because the boat has been stretched bigger than the drawing, there must be some doubt about the sizes and positions of everything. However, this hull form will be fairly forgiving as to rig placement.

    The first try at a sailplan is here

  • 03 Feb 2017 07:59
    Reply # 4584959 on 4497913

    Hi Linda

    Your lead looks OK but you seem to have a lot of sail forward of the mast - balance seems to be around 27% - split rig country.

    Although this might be made to work, I think you'd be better off with a higher aspect sail - she seems to have the displacement to take it without becoming too tender. One of David's weaverbird series would probably be ideal - he's already offered to draw one up.

    Either that or a split rig?


    Last modified: 03 Feb 2017 08:02 | Anonymous
  • 03 Feb 2017 05:12
    Reply # 4584803 on 4497913
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hello All, 

    I am back home and online, having spent too much time waiting for a weather window to the South Island which didn't come!. Still, I had some memorable sailing, not to mention a taste of the NZ coast and its seas - Magnificent!

    Since I bought Francis H, I discovered that the dimensions are slightly different to the original Herreshoff 14 Buzzards Bay plans.  Below are the actual dimensions:

    LOA - 5.6 meters

    LWL - 4.70 meters

    Beam - 1.90 meters

    Draught - 0.76 meters

    Displacement - 750 kg

    In the attached image is the sail plan that I would like comments on. 

    The battens are 3.4 meters

    Mast is 7 meters above deck with 1 meter bury

    Sail area appx 17.5 sq meters

    Sail will be cambered. 

    My requirements: 

    Mast to stay where it is 

    To have a simple and light rig

    Sails not to come into a cockpit above my head

    Boat not too tender 

    Would anyone be in a position to send me a CAD drawing of alternative suggestion. Please let me know if you need any more information regarding the boat.

    Thanks a lot!

    Last modified: 03 Feb 2017 05:37 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 03 Jan 2017 20:15
    Reply # 4505380 on 4497913

    Hi David and Chris, 

    Thanks so much for getting back to me and for resizing the column (I was wondering what happened, Sorry!). 

    David - yes I looked at your lovely Waverbird (is it Hunter Sonata?) and its rig and I liked it, but am too much of a novice to be able to decide outright which rig to go for. The only reservation I have are hinged battens which might be prone to breakage. I' d like to keep it simple. 

    Of course I would be thrilled to see your sail design if it is not of a too much effort. 

    Consulting PJR I now repositioned the mast and it looks perfect - the battens are right on the edge of the cabin, the mast was / is 7m. So pleased we are on a right track. 

    I will add these pictures to the album - later tonight. Off to do some boaty work now. 

    Thanks again! 


  • 03 Jan 2017 12:49
    Reply # 4498501 on 4497913

    Hi Linda,

    So you've got yourself a classic little boat to sail in NZ - and to live on, saving on accommodation?

    I just scaled down my weaverbird rig to 15 sq m, and found that the battens are 2.8m long, with a mast LAP of 7m. That sounds about right for the boat. I agree with Chris, I think you've put your sail too far aft. It's likely to go somewhere near the forward end of the coachroof.

    If you like the idea of a weaverbird sail, let me know and I'll do some work on positioning the rig accurately.

  • 03 Jan 2017 11:32
    Reply # 4498170 on 4497913


    As these marks are drawn, the CE trails the CLR by around 6% of LWL. It is usual to have the static CE lead the CLR - PJR recommends around 9% of LWL for a single-masted vessel.


  • 03 Jan 2017 10:25
    Reply # 4497968 on 4497913


    I resized your table to prevent text spilling off the right edge of the page. Embedded images need to be no more than c. 420 pixels wide to prevent this effect.


  • 03 Jan 2017 09:46
    Message # 4497913

    Wishing everyone a Happy New Year and loads of sailing adventures in 2017! 

    Last year this time I had halfhearted intentions of looking for work. Instead of doing that I decided to pack it in for good and to pursue my sailing life. I now find myself in New Zealand designing sails for my dinky tiny winy boat - LWL 14"! Blissful existence...

    With a friend's help and following Practical Junk Rig instructions we gave it our best shot in designing the sails for her. 

    Being a novice to this it is hardly surprising that I would be most grateful for help, advice, comments in finalising her sail design. 

    Here is the boat spec, the sail we designed and some pictures:

    Here are my requirements: 

    Not surprisingly because of her size I intend to do NZ coastal sailing (challenging enough!). I really like Roger Taylor's design for Mingming II.

    I am not that strong or too young,  so a light and simple rig is a must. 

    Ideally I would like battens not to exceed the cabin top - so that they are not above my head. I am 1.5m tall but the cockpit / foot well is very shallow. 

    We experimented with 3m long battens / 90cm wide panels but settled for 280 x 80cm. 

    The line in the centre of the hull is Centre of Lateral Resistance / CEO is marked with the cross. 

    She is a classic boat with a heavy led keel and to my surprise it seems that I might not even need to move the mast positioning! 

    Eagerly and gratefully awaiting your input and response. 

    Linda Crew-Gee

    Last modified: 03 Jan 2017 10:23 | Anonymous member
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