Jeremy wrote:While working on some basic drawings, I would like to go back and have another glance at David's (Tyler) JRA piece on development of his wing and hinged battens....... somehow I just cannot find it again.Can anyone help point out where it is on the site?

If I can get clear of my current projects by the spring, I'll be having another go at this. I have the moulded components ready, have made a start on the sail and have bought the batten tubes.

Anonymous wrote:

David Thatcher wrote:

I have been in love with multihulls from my early twenties. I used to drool over the Jim Brown Searunner designs, and then was lucky enough to own and cruise a Searunner 37 for 5 years throughout the Pacific. So anything that has that Jim Brown, Russel Brown look gets my heart thumping, and there is something very Russel Brown about the proa Madness.

The reason Madness has that Russel Brown look is, of course, because he was a consultant to John Harris of CLC, though his name does not appear in the promotional material.  It might on the actual plans, I don't know.  It looks very similar to a sketch he made for me when he was in Australia 20 years ago.  We were sitting around on Jzerro, shooting the breeze, and he commented that if he ever built another proa it would be about 30ft, similar to Jzerro but with less sheer.  Seeing my excitement, he made a freehand pencil drawing for me.  It looked remarkably like Madness.

I keep returning to look at Madness myself, dreaming of skipping across the Whitsunday Passage at 15 knots.  I'd have to have a nest ashore for when I wasn't out on the boat, or at least a storage container!  You can buy a CNC routed kit of the ply panels for US $4000, not sure if the shipping costs would make that practical.  The plans have full-size patterns, so some patience and a jigsaw might be the best way.

Russell also designed another boat called the Jester Class Proa for Bieker Boats, and plans were supposedly going to be available from Bieker Boats but I am not sure if they are.  This boat has a bit more volume than Madness, and interestingly, it has chines in both hulls.  This is something I discussed with Russell.  I was thinking of a chine in the ama, with a narrow flat bottom for the main hull and a single chine, but Russell was unenthusiastic about the flat bottom.  He conceded that chines would make a good cruising design.  The ama on the Jester proa has one chine, above the at rest waterline, and the main hull has three, with the upper chine just above the waterline.  The bottom has a tiny flat on it.

If I was going to live permanently aboard a proa I'd go for more volume in the hulls at the expense of speed and thrills.  It would still be a very exciting boat, but even the Jester Class Proa is starting to become biggish.  Russell's rig, especially with roller-reefing jibs, is clever, but I think I'd look at a cat ketch rig with rotating unstayed masts.  Russell concedes that these are great for cruising but the speed loss is unacceptable if you want to race, since you cannot set headsails, particularly lightweight genoas.   In one 350 mile windward race, the tine original Jzero beat a 42ft Newick proa with cat ketch rig by 18 hours.  But I am not interested in racing.  That's why I called this thread Minimalistic cruising multihulls.

I think a junk rig with minimal lead, or even a junkette rig, would work fine, with double sheets on each sail.  I think the halyard and other control lines (apart from the sheets) would need to be on the masts, so you go to the mast to reef or furl.  You'd ease the sheet until the sail is feathering (altering course if necessary), then step up to the mast.  That is not so onerous, as you are well inboard at all times.  If the boat is no more than 30ft, the engineering for the rotating masts will not be too complex.

Given that this post is equally at home here and at the proa thread, I will copy it there too.

So, ignoring the stuff about Bermudan rigged proas, what I am offering is the design being sketched  of a 12 ft proa to be used as a tender for my Pahi (Which grows to 42 ft when detachable bowsprit and boomkin are added).

Instead of having a rotating mast, I will go with a junk mast( fixed/unstayed), with the sail rotating, and meaning that there  needs to be a collar and a rotating pin rail on the mast.

the soft wing sail has 4 panels with hinged battens ( as per David Tyler's soft wing rig) but I include a jib on a luff spar. This achieves a balance on the lines of the aero junk, but the jb has its own halyard.

Junk sheeting is  mostly for reefing, so there is need for  another pair of short, but lightly loaded sheets, to control the wishbone boom.

"stepping up to the mast", will not be possibility on a 12 footer, and all sail handling will be done from a seated position by the mast step.

Assuming it all works OK, there  might be the possibility of building a bigger rig for the larger Pahi.

Hi David, as  things develop and I learn to navigate my way around the JRA site, it becomes clear that you are the owner of Footprints.

Rereading my previous entries in this thread promts me to explain that your comment about Miss Cindy drew me in here, because there had been a Wooden Boat forum discussion ( on 16 ft cruising multis) including that  little cat, that had initially lured  my own proa design inclination in that direction.

Then my train of thought switched to a previous track where junk rig had featured in context with proa design/build, and here I am trying to explain how I am Not intentionally out to derail the thread, but might be doing so again when I go on to say that Gary (Underwood) is someone I know and that Footprints might be the boat I have often looked at when passing Herald Island.... or is that maybe Bootstraps.

Back on track - Madness has got to be a new generation Jzero, and I have to agree with you about the living accomodation being suited to downright meagre rather than minimalist requirements.

Searunner proportions are a 'whole nuther game', based  on my knowledge of even the smallest one (am I correct that this is the 25 footer?, or is it 28).

Still, the idea of stepping a mast inside of a canoe hull (albeit one with a transom) has simply got to be the best space robbing trick around.

For this reason, a design like Madness has something to offer (with the mast stepped outside the cabin), and I have to admit that the thought of putting a Bermudan rig on my SO Pahi (Shunting Oceanic Pahi) has been considered, although, as a passing thing.

Mainly because I don't realistically see myself walking the foredeck of a craft without safety lines and stanchions, at every change of tack, whilst having to drop or hoist a jib at the same time.

I'm hoping to manage end changing (on my Pahi) by having a bracing aid in the way of a hip height safety rail on the lee side, while I tug lines to swing the sails into position when shunting..... this on a craft having a waterline of 30 ft (similar to Madness), but admittedly somewhat more bulky and in a different league (space wise inside, and on deck).

Still, windage(of the Pahi type) does not compare to a bridge deck catamaran.

Because of minute proportions, Miss Cindy obviously has to use a bridge deck cabin, leaving scant interior hull volume forward of this, meaning accessibility to that part of the hulls is virtually out of the question anyway, and stepping masts in there is probably a good way to make us of this near useless space (accomodation wise). 

It seems that having the space provided by a bridge deck cabin and adjoining cockpit, must be about as good as it gets on a catamaran.... if the windage that comes with this configuration is acceptable.

In contrast, the lower wind profile of Madness sure is appealing. 

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hi Graham, you must be the same person who I had heard about in Durban, as I had been wondering when seeing your name here.

I was also surprised to see Graham Cox here on the JRA but alas it is not the same person you would have heard spoken about in Durban. That Graham was famous for inventing the L26 + L36 racing class and was prolific in the boat building and racing scene in Durban, he sadly passed on a number of years ago.

I wonder how many ex-durbanites we have in the JRA.

Thanks for that Niccolaas (hope I got spelling right?).... Yep, it was the Graham Cox from the Royal or the Point yacht club that I was thinking about.Never mind, Graham from JRA is the more interesting of the two, and he does know something about proas as well as Junk rig.

At the risk of going even further off topic (apologies!!), I am the other Graham Cox from Durban, the notorious one!  When I was a schoolboy at Glenwood High, the local newspaper published a story about a Graham Cox who saved someone from drowning down the south coast.  I was famous for a minute.  My understanding of the L26 is that it was designed by Angelo Lavranos for someone called Dave Cox, who formed PSI Yachts in Durban to build this one-design class.  Maybe Graham was his brother?

Jeremy, when you reply to a post you have the option of either clicking the reply button or the quote button (which will include the comment you are replying to).  Either way, if the other person is still following the thread, they will read it, so it doesn't seem to matter to me which you choose.  Unfortunately there is a glitch in the program at the moment, so that the name of the person you are quoting is not captured.

Anyway, nice to have you aboard.

Back to minimalistic multihulls!  A proa would have to be the most minimalistic multihull I could imagine.  Madness could well be too frisky for us old fellas, though shunting is a relatively sedate affair.  In an email to me recently, John Marples, designer of the Seaclipper series of trimarans, said that the Seaclipper 28 was more of a family sedan, whereas Madness was a drag racer that required quick responses.

Without deviating further, I see you have noted the proa stuff on the other thread., Graham.

As far as minimalistic goes, Bernd Kohler has a small design he calls a 'Cataproa', and which has two hulls with a free standing mast on only one. This design might take a battened lug instead of the Sunfish type lateen that he includes in his plans. So based on this idea, an effort was made to hear what Pete Hill had to say about using only one of the twin rigs at a time.....I don't see a duplicated rig as anywhere minimalistic.

But OK, I understand that you have a leaning toward the flying proa type ( after Russel Brown's favoured version), if perhaps even entertaining the idea of a proa.

Talking of minimalistic, I have  23 ft one of those( flying proa type OC), which uses a steering paddle held in one hand, as well as the sheet, controlling a crab claw sail. This isabout as basic as it gets, and

this canoe was my answer to managing the striking of the rig in a quick and easy way forr a single hander(myself), since the Wharram Hinemoa we had at the time, was a bit of a mission to get un-rigged and under a bridge.

Also, it/he had a cabin with more sleeping space ( than the 23ft Wharram), along with needing only a 2hp Ob for drive.

My son was voice-ing thoughts at the time, of a folding trimaran, and indeed, the Marples tri is on offer here as well.

Since I view the tri choice in probably much the same light as Russel Brown might  compare 2 hulls to3), maybe it is best I take a back seat for a while here.

In a little time I will have prepared a graphic representation of the Junk rigged proa 'Blue bottle", which might explain my plans better than words.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hi Graham, you must be the same person who I had heard about in Durban, as I had been wondering when seeing your name here.

I was also surprised to see Graham Cox here on the JRA but alas it is not the same person you would have heard spoken about in Durban. That Graham was famous for inventing the L26 + L36 racing class and was prolific in the boat building and racing scene in Durban, he sadly passed on a number of years ago.

I wonder how many ex-durbanites we have in the JRA.

Thanks for that Niccolaas (hope I got spelling right?).... Yep, it was the Graham Cox from the Royal or the Point yacht club that I was thinking about.Never mind, Graham from JRA is the more interesting of the two, and he does know something about proas as well as Junk rig.

Jeremy, when you reply to a post you have the option of either clicking the reply button or the quote button (which will include the comment you are replying to).  Either way, if the other person is still following the thread, they will read it, so it doesn't seem to matter to me which you choose.  Unfortunately there is a glitch in the program at the moment, so that the name of the person you are quoting is not captured.

Anyway, nice to have you aboard.

Back to minimalistic multihulls!  A proa would have to be the most minimalistic multihull I could imagine.  Madness could well be too frisky for us old fellas, though shunting is a relatively sedate affair.  In an email to me recently, John Marples, designer of the Seaclipper series of trimarans, said that the Seaclipper 28 was more of a family sedan, whereas Madness was a drag racer that required quick responses.