Jan wrote:

Genuine question for the historians on here, the answers might be instructive; What did traditional Chinese junks use as their definitive tender? 

Here's a page from Junks and Sampans of the Yangtze, Worcester. The definition of a sampan is 'three planks', ie flat bottom and slab sides. 

I always watch Roger Barnes Utubes of dinghy cruising, and always keep an eagle eye out for a junk rigged dinghy..........There seems to be zero penetration into the Dinghy Cruising Association of the junk rig.   I can see some the attraction of the loose footed lug he uses....There's no boom to smack someone in the head. 

     It would be pretty cool if it were designed along traditional Chinese lines...

                                                                 H.W.

I have added a design of mine from 1981, called the Webb 14, that could be of interest to people looking at a dinghy of around 14 feet in length. It is in the members area. your files/Drawings/David Webb's designs/ Webb14. I was unable to download it directly to this post, maybe an administrator could do that for me? It is a PDF file and when I tried to upload it, it said it could not as it was not a picture.

I built this design when I was living in California and won 3 of 3 oar on gunwale rowing races with her, being timed at just over 5 knots for one two mile race. Under sail she was very well balanced and I could sail her for hours without touching the helm. I got her to plane on a number of occasions and she surprised quite a lot of people by her performance.

The rig could easily be changed to a junk rig by substituting the four panel junk sail from my entry in the dinghy design competition which I hope that the chair will post on this thread for me.

So, a consensus seems to be forming that we are being asked to do something that is not very useful, even if we could do it: to design an 8ft boat that cannot be a good sailing boat at the same time as being a good yacht's tender. Good mental exercise though it might be, the end result needs to be worthwhile.

Staying with a boat that's one sheet of ply in length, we know that the PDR is a suitable platform to carry a JR - it's a good load carrier for its length, so a skipper can take a newbie out at Junkets.

At one and a half sheets of ply in length, or thereabouts, the Kiwis have their Welsford Golden Bay design, and in the UK, Selway Fisher have a sharpie that is very similar, the Drake 13ft sharpie. Both would be quick and easy to build, both would carry three adults under sail at a Junket. As I've said, I don't see any point in designing a dinghy when there are so many good ones to choose from. It's very unlikely that there's much new to say about the overall concepts of boats of this size, and our efforts would be better concentrated on adapting existing designs, where necessary or desirable.  

David: Ah! So that’s what that thing was between the buoyancy tanks in your earlier post – a centreboard serving as a thwart. Never seen that before, and didn’t guess. Very cunning original idea – two marks for that – though maybe  too much of a good thing, and might need to be re-visited. I have also never seen a low aspect ratio dagger board before – I rather like it. I still think only one is needed. This is shaping up to be a proper contender – not the prettiest boat in the pond, but starting to tick the boxes. Three extra marks for clever economical use of materials, both plywood and alloy tube. I am having a little trouble visualising the forward area, the “mast support” and partners?

Arne – a very pretty little praam dinghy, which now meets what I think should be the criteria for a JRA dinghy. Arne grudgingly wrote: “I am… not a JR priest” Absolutely, well put Arne, point taken, and this has been my concern about a junk rigged tender from the outset. Unfortunately, irrational as it may be, I think a JRA dinghy must have some form of JR, otherwise there is little point in the competition. This will force the contestants to really get down to some minimalist thinking and try to find a way to make a 2-minute junk rig which is functional and easy to dismantle and re-assemble without causing frustration - and in addition, I now think the criteria should state that it must be capable of sailing to windward. If all this proves to be impractical, then I still say look instead at a proper junket boat – but this near-impossible brief may yet produce something innovative.

Interesting to see these two quite different concepts evolving. The one point of similarity seems to be a wish to dispense with the rudder. This would be a learning experience for me – and a long overdue one, I dare say – I admire sculling over the stern and ashamed to admit I never learned to do it. Thanks Arne and David for each suggesting this as an additional motivation, I really must. Its true, carrying a rudder around and trying to stow it somewhere is a curse, unless you are actually sailing. Ditto centreboard and maybe even more so leeboard. Maybe using the board for a thwart really does have merit.

Thanks David and Arne for your creativity – I doff my cap to you both and look forward to further details (more details needed – that’s where the devil is lurking) and I don’t envy the judging committee. Hopefully there are more designs in the offing – and that breakthrough which has not yet been reached, though progress has been made – the radical 2-minute micro JR.

PS Arne - The smallest boat with the world's largest fish-gutting board! - do I detect a sour note?  (If there's one thing I hate on a sailboat, its fishing gear, gets in the road and tangles up with everything.)