Split Junk, Cambered panel or hinged batten sail. Which to choose?

  • 20 Nov 2013 09:02
    Reply # 1442091 on 746824
    Hi Dave

    Well done. I guess there were two for you working with the moving dolly, whereas I work single-handed.

    I’m aware that staples and glue can be used to hold seams together, but I’ve found that 19mm basting tape has done the same job perfectly and is extremely easy to use. It is also adjustable to get the fit exactly as you want it and is sewn through without any risk of the needle hitting metal. I guess sailmakers use it because their experience shows that it is the easiest way to do the job.

    Cheers, Slieve.
    Last modified: 20 Nov 2013 09:03 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Nov 2013 23:39
    Reply # 1433864 on 748627
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:

     

    I find the idea of having a mobile sewing machine and stationary material quite scary. How would you sew a straight line and then sew a curved line? 


    ...


    Big sails are built of numerous small panels. It’s the finishing off that takes time, but most of that is round the edges which are easier to work at.

     

    Slieve

     

    Hi Slieve,

    Anke and I had good luck with the machine on a low dolly, sewing curves (from the concave side) and straight lines.

    The only trick to it seemed to be to make sure the dolly wheels were moving freely (greased and smooth floor), and to be sure that they were in line for the seam before starting.

    Another trick a sailmaker friend told us was to use staples for temporary tacking. Works great, especially around the edges.

    For SLACKTIDE's mid-sail tacks, we used hotmelt glue (press flat while still hot to avoid bumps). Worked so well, we never did sew down the chafe strips (which, it should be said, got a double line of grommets for lacing).

    Dave Z
  • 20 Dec 2012 06:24
    Reply # 1163666 on 746824
    Deleted user
    No 'thrumming' or  that type of noise noise of any sort, probably because they are pullled so tight. I did notice when sailing hard on the wind last week in quite fresh conditions that I was getting some of those sorts of noise from the webbing jack stays against the deck as they are not lashed super tight, but certainly nothing from the webbing parrels.
  • 20 Dec 2012 01:53
    Reply # 1163557 on 1163549
    David Thatcher wrote:I have been reading a lot of comments about parrels and looking at photos where people have tried various options to make the parrels slide up and down the mast more easlly. I can certainly recommend for the battens at least the use of webbing for parrels. Footprints originally had conventional rope parrels which were always getting caught on each other and seemed to introduce a lot of friction. I had read some comments from Sebastian who owns Peregrin saying how good his webbing parrels were. When finally setting up my new sail, and because I have inherited a whole roll of fairly heavy 40mm webbing, I used that to make up the new batten parrels and they have been a complete success. They do not get caught up, they always stay flat on the mast, they slide easily on the mast and because of all these reasons they can be pulled quite tight so as to prevent the sail falling away from the mast when the sail is to leeward. My batten parrels are very long, half the length of the battens, but I am sure the webbing would work equally as well for short parrels. Depending on the width of the webbing it could be lashed directly to the battens as with rope, but for my webbing parrels I have sewn a loop into each end of the webbing and used polyester cord to lash the parrel to the batten.
    David,
    Do you get any sign of 'thrumming' in the long batten parrels, like a bird-scaring ribbon?
  • 20 Dec 2012 01:34
    Reply # 1163549 on 746824
    Deleted user
    I have been reading a lot of comments about parrels and looking at photos where people have tried various options to make the parrels slide up and down the mast more easlly. I can certainly recommend for the battens at least the use of webbing for parrels. Footprints originally had conventional rope parrels which were always getting caught on each other and seemed to introduce a lot of friction. I had read some comments from Sebastian who owns Peregrin saying how good his webbing parrels were. When finally setting up my new sail, and because I have inherited a whole roll of fairly heavy 40mm webbing, I used that to make up the new batten parrels and they have been a complete success. They do not get caught up, they always stay flat on the mast, they slide easily on the mast and because of all these reasons they can be pulled quite tight so as to prevent the sail falling away from the mast when the sail is to leeward. My batten parrels are very long, half the length of the battens, but I am sure the webbing would work equally as well for short parrels. Depending on the width of the webbing it could be lashed directly to the battens as with rope, but for my webbing parrels I have sewn a loop into each end of the webbing and used polyester cord to lash the parrel to the batten.
  • 18 Dec 2012 12:31
    Reply # 1162356 on 1160907
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    Just a thought, Graham. Now that your new loops will limit the balance in the sail anyway - what about just making the batten parrels shorter to do the same job? You could fit them with similar slippery plastic hose to avoid snagging.

    Arne


    I did think of using short batten parrels, Arne, but chose the Paul Fay parrels for two reasons.  One, I would need to recut my batten pocket windows to use the short batten parrels (I do have a second window in the pocket but it is a bit too far forward to be suitable), and two, the Paul Fay parrels can be set up with precise length adjustments so that I can induce automatic positive batten stagger.  However, because the parrels are seized to the battens where they pass the forward pocket windows, they function like short batten parrels anyway.  I may be able to dispense with my long batten parrels, but am waiting for a trial sail in fresh winds before deciding.  Thanks for your suggestions, it is always helpful to consider all options.  Happy Christmas!  PS, I had intended setting the rig up with variable balance but have found in practice that I do not need to.  I can get the boat to balance perfectly just by reefing if needed.
  • 16 Dec 2012 09:41
    Reply # 1160907 on 746824
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Just a thought, Graham. Now that your new loops will limit the balance in the sail anyway - what about just making the batten parrels shorter to do the same job? You could fit them with similar slippery plastic hose to avoid snagging.

    Arne

  • 16 Dec 2012 02:56
    Reply # 1160756 on 746824
    Yes I do have an excellent LED head-torch but I never thought it would be powerful enough for illuminating the sail.  I will take it out on deck tonight and experiment with it!  I have also now fitted the Paul Fay style fixed luff parrels on my four lower battens and - after some adjustments of length, making each one a bit shorter than the one below - voila!  I have positive batten stagger when I lower the sail.  Because of the mast taper, they slacken off a bit when hoisted but pull the battens aft as they are lowered.  All I need to do is ease the halyard while taking the slack out of the yard hauling parrel.  I no longer need to apply precise tension to the throat hauling parrel to control batten stagger.  I just take the slack out of it and give it a little tension as each batten nests.  The plastic sleeve over the Paul Fay luff parrels reduces their friction significantly and a liberal application of silicone spray also helps.  There is a slight tendency for these new parrels to snag on the standard fixed batten parrels.  As they are only attached to the battens at the forward end, they tend to lag behind the batten when raising or lowering.  I am considering seizing these parrels to the battens where they loop around the mast to force them to go up and down with the battens more easily, but until I try it an not sure if this will cause any difficulty.  Trial and error.  There will always be some error.  I have had my fair share and it has been a bit shocking going from being a veteran sailor to being something of a greenhorn again but I am beginning to think I might be close to a solution at last.

    PS: Since writing the above I have gone back up on deck and seized the Paul Fay parrels to the battens where they loop around the mast.  Now the parrels go up and down smoothly with the battens, no foul ups, and I get the perfect amount of positive batten stagger each time I furl the sail.  I have only conducted a dockside trial, in about 5 - 10 knots of wind from about 40 degrees off the bow (simulating a close hauled position) but it is working perfectly.  I feel cautious, given my history with this sail, but I am beginning to believe I finally have a rig that behaves the way I need it to.
    Last modified: 16 Dec 2012 04:58 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Dec 2012 19:40
    Reply # 1160591 on 746824
    Do you not have an LED headtorch, Graham?  I find they are bright enough to show all the detail and of course shine exactly where you want to look and leave your hands free, too.
  • 15 Dec 2012 04:45
    Reply # 1160315 on 1159738
    Arne Kverneland wrote:
    Graham, would it be an idea to have a LED lamp ready to let you see the sail even when pitch dark? If set to a low level they should not need to blind you. Just an armchair idea from a die hard daysailer...

    Arne

    Yes, good idea Arne.  I have thought about it.  Actually I was thinking of a swiveling spotlight on the davits that I could rotate to shine on the leech on either tack, a bit like spreader lights on a bermudian rig.  It ruins your night vision but in the open sea that's not such a problem.  There are other times I could use a spotlight anyway, such as when looking for moorings or fishtraps on a dark night!  I might also revert to my old practice of tucking in a couple of reefs at sunset and taking it easy through the night.  Happy Christmas!
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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