Proposal for Variable Camber

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  • 20 Nov 2013 15:31
    Reply # 1442260 on 1441932
    Just another thought on the same idea. If you build a cambered panel sail using Arne’s methods you could possibly adjust the achieved camber by adjusting the tension along the battens if the material would allow some stretch.

     Even more to think about.

    Cheers, Slieve.
  • 20 Nov 2013 15:24
    Reply # 1442255 on 1441932
    Hi Dave

    You’ve come up with an interesting idea. Whether it is necessary or practical is beside the point. What is important is that we all publish our thoughts and ideas and who knows but someone may turn them into the next step forward.

    At this point in time I don’t think your idea is really necessary, but it is just possible (probable?) that in the future it may be critical, particularly if more junk rigged boats get into the racing fleets.

    I feel the split junk rig does not need too much adjustment as it has quite low camber in the main but quite a wide entry angle in the jibs and seems to give the best of both worlds, but even so, you’ve set the old grey cells rattling.

    Cheers, Slieve.
  • 20 Nov 2013 14:31
    Reply # 1442218 on 1441932
    Deleted user
    I'm with these guys.  Less camber in the top panels is all you need. Already have tons of advantage sailing a junk in those crazy coastal conditions.
  • 20 Nov 2013 07:34
    Reply # 1442050 on 1441932
    Deleted user
    Sounds like a lot of work to me! Remember that if you have too much sail up, or you need to reduce the power from your sails reef, reef, reef! With a junk rig reefing is dead easy so I would aim for a moderate amount of camber to suit your boat characteristics. On Footprints we have 6% on the lower panels and reducing in the upper panels. This is a good all round amount of camber for us because Footprints is a relatively light weight boat. Heavier boats like Paul's La Chica have more camber. Our 6% camber has proven to be effective in both light airs and stronger winds and both coastal sailing and ocean crossing. I found that when doing our 2 recent ocean crossings I very seldom had full sail up and often had either one or two panels down, and for a lot of time was down to only 4 out of 8 panels which was only about a third of our total sail area, and being the upper panels had less camber. 
  • 20 Nov 2013 03:24
    Reply # 1441965 on 1441932
    David, I see where you are coming from but do wonder if there really is a need. For LC I just graduated the panels so that in the main, camber goes from 10% at the bottom most panel to 2% at the top. The foresail goes from 12% at the bottom to 3% at the top. Theory being that as the wind speed increases, you reef and so get rid of the fuller panels. This is not perfection but I feel it is a pragmatic compromise. So far this has proved very satisfactory, though I have not yet gone offshore.

    Don't however let me discourage you, I'd love to see how your idea would workout in practice and cannot really see why it should not work. You could also consider using zips such as the bermuda guys use to flatten their mains.

    However, in my case I'd probably be to lazy to bother much with adjusting the panels.

    Last modified: 20 Nov 2013 06:23 | Anonymous member
  • 20 Nov 2013 01:32
    Message # 1441932
    Anke and I are planning our next boat and looking into cambered sails.

    In reviewing all the great information developed by JRA members (and thank you so much!!) I had a brainstorm. Well... a braindrizzle, perhaps.

    I observe that many folks would like as much as 10% camber, but settle for less -- sometimes much less -- in the effort to get the best match between performance over a range of conditions and other factors (aesthetics and handling chief among them).

    In our case, we have a large, seasonal difference between summer cruising in mostly light air, vs. autumn/winter/spring cruising in potentially wild weather, punctuated by squalls and freight train gusts (williwaws).

    It would be great to have a summer suit (deep camber) and a not-summer suit of sails (lower camber or none). Often, a weather pattern will settle in for weeks at a time, justifying considerable effort changing camber. If we could invest a mere hour or so to readjust in between, that would be most excellent! Quicker would be even better.

    So, the proposal:

    1. Shape panels for maximum desired camber (10%?).

    2. Install lines of grommets along the straight-away traversing the fabric between batten ends at luff and leech (these are curved lines, relative to the battens, analogous to the curved edges of the 'lens' in the 'lens method' of construction... more sophisticated lines may be followed, if desired).

    3. Lace up the grommets as one would a shoe, passing around the each respective batten. [Experiment may show half-lacing and/or simple brailing to be sufficient and quicker to adjust.]

    4. Draw the two lines together until the desired camber is reached, adjusting tension as necessary, then make fast.

    The bunt of sail between grommets would be controlled by the lacing, and held in-line along the battens. It would add turbulence, but (at least in fanned sails) Bunny Smith's experiments suggest this might be a bonus.

    If this works, one could flatten out before setting out on a blustery day, or loosen up for a fast windward passage in lighter weather. Or racing/showing off? Or somewhere in-between for decent performance under dapper sails.

    Note: Half-lacing/brailing would give very positive control, drawing against battens along the edges of panels.

    Guidelines can be struck (marked between grommets) as the target for various percentages of camber, using whatever theory of curvature desired.

    It seems likely to me that there would be a trade-off between low friction (for easy adjustment) and higher friction (for holding set edge shape). It's possible that friction could be induced in an otherwise low friction set-up.


    *****


    Any of you with experience under cambered sails, does this sound workable? How about advisable? Observations, suggestions, improvements or alternatives?

    Dave Z
    Last modified: 20 Nov 2013 01:38 | Anonymous member
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