Gybing a junk

  • 10 Feb 2013 05:42
    Reply # 1203824 on 1201045
    What I'd like is a single block with a jamb cleat built in. I had one but for some silly reason I gave it away.
  • 09 Feb 2013 17:53
    Reply # 1203530 on 1201045
    Good Morning Graham,

    We do, of course, leave the cockpit. Like you, I go around the deck a couple of times a day at sea, hooked in. I clean the pilothouse windows before the night watch... Occasionally one of us even un-snags a fore sheet from the main boom.

    The downhauls you describe will help me with ours. I hadn't thought as far aft as 40%, but that makes sense to help with leech tension and to hold down in a gybe. The block on the boom is another idea I'll try out. Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Kurt
  • 09 Feb 2013 11:40
    Reply # 1203321 on 1201045
    If you haul in the sheet before gybing there is no need to take it off the cleat, just grab the loose bight between the lower block and the cleat and haul, then let it run out on the other side.  Also, if you put the helm up firmly you will be almost on a beam reach on the other gybe before the sail gets any wind in it, and this will significantly soften the blow (beware of overtaking vessels - I caused mayhem at the finishing line of a race recently and I wasn't even an official entrant!)

    As to tying off reefed battens at the leech, I try to lie ahull when reefing with the helm lashed down.  Then I haul the sail in until the clew is over the lee side deck, step up and smartly pass a lashing through the sheetlet bowline loops.  I am glad I do not have to go out on the bowsprit anymore but am happy to step out of the cockpit occasionally in anything but survival conditions.  I always take a turn around the deck first thing in the morning and just before sunset, making sure all is well.  By the time the sea gets dangerous I plan to be lying to my Jordan series drogue and reading one of my many books.

    Nonetheless, I am also going to trial a modified downhaul system that may allow me to circumvent the need to tie down reefed battens at the leech.  I am going to fit two single downhauls, not rigged to spans as in PJR - one from the second batten up and one from the fourth batten up, about 40% aft of the luff.  They will come vertically down to a block on the boom and then to the partners before leading aft.  With one reef in, slack is taken out of them so that they are acting as a loose sort of vang.  The sail should not fan up with one reef in but only the first batten could lift anyway.  Two reefs in will see both reefed battens held snug to the boom and the boom resisting lifting.  With three reefs in and the slack taken out off the upper downhaul, only the third reefed panel could lift.  With four panels down, all reefed panels and boom are held down.  Above this I only have three fanned panels and a fan up by them is not problematic.  The top two panels can only fan up to their sailing positions and the third panel down, the transitional panel, not much more.  I have been waiting to rig this setup before discussing it but the cyclonic weather here is making it hard to do much.  (Either too hot or too windy, or too wet, or all three at once!)

    I agree with David that a forward raking mast would have to slow the gybe down, but am not sure by how much.  I have 3 degrees forward rake and am well pleased with it, despite my peculiar problems with negative batten stagger (since solved).  I find it very easy to swan along off the wind in light weather, and it looks terrific.  It is also an excellent tool for assessing the character of strangers.  If they like it or are intrigued by it they are usually delightful people to know, while the bores usually hate it!
    Last modified: 09 Feb 2013 11:45 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Feb 2013 19:46
    Reply # 1202784 on 1201045
    I'd like to point out the beneficial effects of raking the mast forward - increased balance, less stress, a sail that is happy to stay out one side or the other but will gybe readily, but softly, when asked. Fantail has 6 degrees of forward rake, the performance is good, and there don't seem to be any downsides. I just measured up again. To avoid wrecking the accommodation, there's no happy medium, it's either the present 2 degrees or a massive 11 degrees. Do I dare to think about that? I'd get a sail that would be less highly stressed and easier to handle, and I wouldn't have to slide the sail across the mast when running fast. I could even think about a split rig...
  • 08 Feb 2013 18:04
    Reply # 1202698 on 1202435
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:

    The two main structural features of the Poppy rig are maximum sail balance and the use of downhauls to simplify the rigging. 

    Cheers, Slieve.

    Quite apart from any performance benefit, the low-stress, balanced, docile nature of the split rig has to make it worth considering for a new boat design, or new conversion. Gybing is just one of the things it does better. 
  • 08 Feb 2013 18:04
    Reply # 1202696 on 1201045
    Slieve,

    Very reasonable points about the effect of balance and the worth of downhauls. My resolve to actually fit one or two is increased.

    My intuition also likes the Van Loan form for a cambered-panel sail. On Aphrodite, the sail shaped out nicely (except at the troublesome lifts) and 'performed' to impress us. (There was no-one to race...) La Chica will be very interesting.

    Cheers,
    Kurt


  • 08 Feb 2013 17:53
    Reply # 1202690 on 1201045
    Gary,

    A stopper knot in the sheet that is good for full sail, (the condition when gybes are easiest) lets way too much sheet go out if your sail is reefed,  (when gybes are more challenging.) 

    You could be organised and mark the sheet for each reefed condition so you can tie a new stopper every time. I don't bother. Some things simply require vigilance, I suppose. That one stopper is still a good idea.

    Ketil,

    I'll bet in your country, the land breezes can be quite exciting. 
    I hope to get there.

    Cheers,
    Kurt
  • 08 Feb 2013 11:44
    Reply # 1202435 on 1201045

    Sorry guys, but here we go again. Slieve is just about to push his split junk rig set-up yet again.

    Seriously though, recently there have been a number of threads about fan ups, Chinese gibes and batten stacking problems and now we’re looking at straight forward gibing concerns and these are all things that are not a problem with the Poppy rig.

    The two main structural features of the Poppy rig are maximum sail balance and the use of downhauls to simplify the rigging. The downhauls work well with the large amount of balance as the downward pull is working quite close to the middle of the batten so applies tension to both the luff and the leech. With this set up there is very little chance of a fan-up or Chinese gibe as the framework is well tensioned across the middle by the halyard and downhauls. The rig swings around like a barn door, but with the aerodynamic lift built into the camber.

    As the halyard supports the rig near the centre then the battens tend to fall straight down on top of each other in an orderly fashion, so there seems to be no stacking problems.

    As for gibing, the only problem on Poppy is that the aft ends of the battens are not clean and flush with the leech of the sail and can catch the sheet, and that is something that I will clean up someday when I have nothing better to do. (Dream on, Mac) Firstly, I sail Poppy with the rig fully squared off at right angles to the centre line when the wind is more than 140deg from the bow, so the risk of an accidental gibe is minimum. I’m happy to let a 4-year-old sail Poppy on the dead run, but wouldn’t try on a Bermudan rig. I have even found a guest on board who had followed the river round and was sailing 70deg by the lee and the rig was still stable, but the speed was lower. The only concern with an accidental gibe is that there is no hoop over the cockpit, but even so, when the sail starts to swing across there is no real speed in it due to the large balance.

    I tend to gibe all standing by swinging the boat to 90deg by the lee and letting the wind do the work. The sail swings across relatively slowly so there is time to grab a handful of the sheet and flick it over your head, and the sail ends up feathered with slack sheets before you either sheet in of bear away again. The only problem is that the sheet can catch on the batten end fittings, which should be changed, but even that does not matter as the downhauls keep the sail fairly flat. By the way, I’ve crash gibed like this with full sail in a lumpy force 6 plus where the water speed was away above hull speed. As the boat turns more by the lee it starts to slow down so that when the sail crosses the boat the water speed is moderate, and the only problem is the seas on your beam, so it is worth timing the manoeuvre between crests.

    It is possible to gibe by sheeting in and out when sailing up the narrow bit of a river, but that needs effort, and I try not to do ‘effort’ if I can help it. Alternatively, if sailing up a river then there’s no problem is sailing up to about 45deg by the lee if the wind is reasonably stable. It’s fun to do this on starboard tack when you meet a fleet of racing dinghies. They don’t like it!

    I remember sailing Arne’s Johanna and playing with the gibe in a force three to four. Squared off and gibing all standing there was no problem as there was no energy in the sail as it reached the end of its swing. I then tried sheeting the sail in to 45deg and crash gibing and although there was some drive in the sail as it came up on the sheet, it was still not a frightening experience.

    Even if you don’t want to risk the split rig, the van Loan rig also has high balance and downhauls and has the same convenient sailing characteristics and low stress advantages. For those who are happy with a flat sail then it would be well worth considering. Where some believe a high peeked yard is important there are also those of us who believe the longer tight luff and the shallow yard angle give less vortex/ tip drag which can be a major inefficiency. I would not be surprised if a van Loan rig with about 7% camber would give good performance, even without a split, though it may need chafe reinforcement in way of the mast. The problem is that I am not prepared to try it myself as I’m very happy with the rig I’ve got.

    Cheers, Slieve.

    Last modified: 08 Feb 2013 21:30 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Feb 2013 01:08
    Reply # 1202185 on 1201045
    Graham, I have a figure 8 knot in the sheet tail as insurance.
  • 07 Feb 2013 21:09
    Reply # 1201985 on 1201045

    Hi Kurt,

    Dont worry, I never gybe when the wind blows more than 16 knots. I dont want to be hanged, although the old english saying goes: Better well hanged than ill married. Most of my sailing is inshore, so accidental gybes due to geography is not always avoided, but more often the wind is much lighter in the windshadows than 16 knots.

    Ketil.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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