Converting Corribee/Coromandel to junk rig -- technical discussion

  • 28 Jan 2025 11:21
    Reply # 13455823 on 13421143

    Whilst waiting for my mast and aluminium for spars to arrive I thought I'd get going with the sail.  I've made a lofting/sewing table 3.6 X 1.5m in my garage and have started making the panel templates.  One of the satisfying aspects of working on boats is the curves you create, and I enjoyed marking out the barrel curves!  I've ordered sail cloth from englishseadog which should arrive this week. It's good to be making progress

    The one part of the sewing I don't understand yet though it may become clear is how the lengths of the panels matches up, eg between panel 1 and 2 where the round on panel 1 is half that of panel 2.  Surely that makes the  length of the seam different on the 2 edges?  Any clues as to how this works, maybe the difference isn't that significant, thanks.

    2 files
  • 15 Jan 2025 20:49
    Reply # 13450769 on 13421143
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jes,
    When I drew up that JR, I aimed on getting its CE in the same fore-aft position as with the Bermudan rig.  This appears to result in 18% lead. However, one can easily shift the sail aft as much as 175mm, resulting in the Lead dropping to about 14%. My armchair guess is that the best position is where I have drawn it, or within 10 cm aft of it. The halyard will work well with that.

    I have drawn that sail with  generous clearance between boom and deck. It is probably possible to lower the boom around 100 mm and thus increase the halyard drift. This gives more freedom to shift the sail aft without ending up with a halyard angle above 15°.

    Anyway, if the mast position is right with respect to the boat’s interior, then that is how I would have done it.

    Good luck!
    Arne


  • 15 Jan 2025 15:46
    Reply # 13450561 on 13421842
    Anonymous wrote:

    This summer JRA member Paul Schnabel has successfully cruised his Maxi 77 with his junkrig set with up to 27% mast balance.
    I have therefore made use of his findings and drawn a hi-balance sail for the Corribee, shown below.

    The mast was put through the hatch, with its centre about 200mm aft of its forward edge.

    I don’t think the sail will ever need to be moved forward of the shown position. If anything, it rather needs to be shifted aft a little to trim away any lee helm. There will be plenty of room for that.

    The Corribee has a smallish rudder. This hi-balance JR brings its CE quite close to the JR mast, which again means that the CE will sit close to the boat’s centreline when sailing downwind. This should help the rudder to cope.

    Just an idea.

    Arne

    PS:
    It looks to me that the superstructure of the Mk 2 and 3 are very similar, so I used a Mk 3 version here.

    (Hi-res diagram in Arne's sketches, section 8, photo11)


    Hi Arne, can I trouble you again? I am getting back into my project after a bit if a break.  I went through the process of working out the CoL for my hull today and  I have transferred that onto your  sketch, see attached image. It appears that the CE is way forward of my estimated CoL. Is this cause for concern?  Thanks, Jes. 

    I just went back and plotted the CE for the old Bermudan rig and compared it to the CE of your proposed rig and find they are identical...perhaps I'm trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, as we say!!

    1 file
    Last modified: 15 Jan 2025 16:13 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Jan 2025 16:04
    Reply # 13449185 on 13421143

    Hi Jes, thank you very much for the prompt reply. i had a look at the site you mentioned, and it looks very promising. I am useless at maths, but i will try my best to work out what i need for re-rigging my boat. Best regards, Oz.

  • 11 Jan 2025 09:31
    Reply # 13448938 on 13448670
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hi Jes, i have just recently joined the JRA, as i have become interested in the junk rig. I have a home built Flicka sailboat designed by Bruce Bingham, I built the boat in 1993 and rigged her as cutter. I have started looking at materials for masts, yards battens etc. I live in Devon, England and came across a company called Aluminium warehouse, who seem to stock aluminium tubing that looks usefull. the only trouble is their maximum length is 5 metres. I am writing to ask if you could let me know the contact details of where you sourced the lampost for your mast. Many thanks. Best regards, Oz.

    Hi, this is the company website.  I discussed with them about supplying one without the access door for electrics in the bottom section. https://streetlightingsupplies.com
  • 10 Jan 2025 17:21
    Reply # 13448670 on 13421143

    Hi Jes, i have just recently joined the JRA, as i have become interested in the junk rig. I have a home built Flicka sailboat designed by Bruce Bingham, I built the boat in 1993 and rigged her as cutter. I have started looking at materials for masts, yards battens etc. I live in Devon, England and came across a company called Aluminium warehouse, who seem to stock aluminium tubing that looks usefull. the only trouble is their maximum length is 5 metres. I am writing to ask if you could let me know the contact details of where you sourced the lampost for your mast. Many thanks. Best regards, Oz.

  • 07 Dec 2024 22:23
    Reply # 13438723 on 13438697
    Anonymous wrote:

    Yes, Jes, I think you are overthinking a bit.
    The odd-looking number 1.98, has nothing to do with me being particularly accurate or bright. The number is just there to point you to the corresponding master sailplan

    Ten years ago I produced a string of master sails, called the Johanna style master sails, with AR rising from 1.80 to 2.25 with 0.05 increments, and all with 70° yard angle. Only recently did I design a string of master sails with yard angles at 65 and 60°.

    To make them, I started with the ‘Johanna 70’ master sails.
    I kept the four lower panels and made new 3-panel top sections, doing my best to make the area of these top panels almost the same as in the lower panels.

    I stick with the method in PJR for finding the AR: AR= h/chord, where h is the vertical height from peak to boom. In your case, this Johanna 60sail with AR=1.98 is thus a result of the Johanna 70 master’s  with AR = 2.00.

    This is how I go about to find a suitable rig for a boat like yours.

    • ·         I start with drawing a vertical mast line where the mast is supposed to go.
    • ·         Then I draw a long boom line with 10° rise.
    • ·         Then I play with this formula to find a possible combination of batten length and AR which gives the wanted sail area and a usable mast balance.
      SA = B x B x AR x 0.78. This formula hits within one sqm, but remember to, in this case, put AR = 2.00 into the formula.
    • ·         In your case I end up with a 60° yard to allow a hi-balance sail to sit.
    • ·         Then I go to the string of Johanna 60 master sails (found und MASTER SAILPLANS here: The Junk Rig Association - Arne Kverneland ) and pick the one with AR= 1.98. A quick check with the calculator make sure that the area will be right.
    • ·         From the two sheets of that master sailplans you can decide how much camber you want (I use 8%) and by reading Chapter 4, find the right numbers for the needed Round, R.

    Clear as mud, right?

    Arne


    Arne that's great thanks, it will be clear once I've gone through it all!!  I've just bought a sewing machine off ebay and sent off for some sailcloth samples and a roll of paper for llofting .  Will probably make a start sometime in the new year.
  • 07 Dec 2024 20:22
    Reply # 13438697 on 13421143
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Yes, Jes, I think you are overthinking a bit.
    The odd-looking number 1.98, has nothing to do with me being particularly accurate or bright. The number is just there to point you to the corresponding master sailplan

    Ten years ago I produced a string of master sails, called the Johanna style master sails, with AR rising from 1.80 to 2.25 with 0.05 increments, and all with 70° yard angle. Only recently did I design a string of master sails with yard angles at 65 and 60°.

    To make them, I started with the ‘Johanna 70’ master sails.
    I kept the four lower panels and made new 3-panel top sections, doing my best to make the area of these top panels almost the same as in the lower panels.

    I stick with the method in PJR for finding the AR: AR= h/chord, where h is the vertical height from peak to boom. In your case, this Johanna 60sail with AR=1.98 is thus a result of the Johanna 70 master’s  with AR = 2.00.

    This is how I go about to find a suitable rig for a boat like yours.

    • ·         I start with drawing a vertical mast line where the mast is supposed to go.
    • ·         Then I draw a long boom line with 10° rise.
    • ·         Then I play with this formula to find a possible combination of batten length and AR which gives the wanted sail area and a usable mast balance.
      SA = B x B x AR x 0.78. This formula hits within one sqm, but remember to, in this case, put AR = 2.00 into the formula.
    • ·         In your case I end up with a 60° yard to allow a hi-balance sail to sit.
    • ·         Then I go to the string of Johanna 60 master sails (found und MASTER SAILPLANS here: The Junk Rig Association - Arne Kverneland ) and pick the one with AR= 1.98. A quick check with the calculator makes sure that the area will be right.
    • ·         From the two sheets of that master sailplans you can decide how much camber you want (I use 8%) and by reading Chapter 4, find the right numbers for the needed Round, R.

    Clear as mud, right?

    Arne


    Last modified: 23 Mar 2025 09:09 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 07 Dec 2024 17:38
    Reply # 13438669 on 13421842
    Anonymous wrote:

    This summer JRA member Paul Schnabel has successfully cruised his Maxi 77 with his junkrig set with up to 27% mast balance.
    I have therefore made use of his findings and drawn a hi-balance sail for the Corribee, shown below.

    The mast was put through the hatch, with its centre about 200mm aft of its forward edge.

    I don’t think the sail will ever need to be moved forward of the shown position. If anything, it rather needs to be shifted aft a little to trim away any lee helm. There will be plenty of room for that.

    The Corribee has a smallish rudder. This hi-balance JR brings its CE quite close to the JR mast, which again means that the CE will sit close to the boat’s centreline when sailing downwind. This should help the rudder to cope.

    Just an idea.

    Arne

    PS:
    It looks to me that the superstructure of the Mk 2 and 3 are very similar, so I used a Mk 3 version here.

    (Hi-res diagram in Arne's sketches, section 8, photo11)


    Hi Arne, can you explain to me why you chose an AR of 1.98 for this sail.  I am working my way through understanding the sail design. I have printed off Chaptre 5, Making the Sail.  For convenience sake I could use the AR 1.95 drawing and scale down the dimensions of that design to draw my sail but I would lose about 1sqm of sail area, or I could go up to the AR 2.00.  I don't suppose it would make that much difference. May be I'm overthinking it, certainly doing a lot of thinking!!
  • 06 Dec 2024 09:23
    Reply # 13438268 on 13421143

    It's a very old tergal sailcloth from the sixties or seventies, "Cordon noir", 150g/m².

    A friend kept a entire roll of this sailcloth in his placard during fifty years before giving it to me for my junk rig. He told me "Ça ne marchera pas ton truc, mais j'ai hâte de voir ça !*" Sadly he passed away before Circé was ready.


    * It won't work but I can't wait to see this !

    Last modified: 06 Dec 2024 09:24 | Anonymous member