Selway-fisher Surf 8 - 8 foot dinghy junk rig conversion

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  • 03 Dec 2025 05:24
    Reply # 13569009 on 13566074
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Bonjour

    In my opinion Junk rig is very well suited to learn sailing because it is friendly (As Steeve expereinced with his grand son):

    - It is reassuring  ( calm and un-noisy, it never flaps...)

    - It is very permissive (no real issus if you gybe or tac by mistake)

    - it is adaptable (you may sail easily under-canvased to start and increase the sail area as you gain confidence)

    - It heels less than most of the other rig (the centre of effort is lower for a same sail area)

    - It is easy to stop at any time and point of sailing  (by releasing the sheet and/or the halyard) especially when the situation becomes complicated.

    - It is tolerant (it's easy to sail and it will push you forward even if not properly tuned).

    - It is adaptative (to the variation of wind, by adjusting the sail area).

    -It is pedagogic (in the way that it is difficult to trim and helm well and the differences in performance may be important)


    Of course you must have a visible big wind indicator and big tale-tails at the leach and luff to guide the trimming and helm.

    To rig the sail, the first time, might be a little more difficult but you only do it once and you may ask some support to the JRA...

    Experienced or not, on a dingy, a simplified rig (Something around 3 panels)  seems more adequate. 
    Eric

  • 02 Dec 2025 08:23
    Reply # 13568610 on 13566074

    thanks Graeme (and others) for your input, i am taking it all onboard and am leaning towards a 3 panel junk rig as it seems simple enough (given my ignorance). so on with the build and hopefully, one day i can try it out. thanks all

  • 01 Dec 2025 02:36
    Reply # 13568200 on 13566074
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Most of the objection to junk rig in a dinghy applies to 5 and 6 (or even 7) -panel rigs which are scaled down from the junk rigs of larger boats.  Obviously good fun, and educational, but a little bit whimsical and  truly more complex than necessary in a dinghy.

    However, the five tiny junk rigs which I think deserve attention are these – look how simple and easy to let fly are the sheets on these little junk rigs. Only one of them needs a boomkin (the fawn-coloured fanned sail, No 2). They all comprise just three (or at most four) panels.

    They are each nice and simple, and while sailing, if you need to drop sail in a hurry, it will flop down straight into the lift cradle (AKA lazyjack cradle) and be muzzled in an instant, without you having to move from your seating position – with complete control – without you being smothered by spars and sailcloth slithering around - and the sail can just as instantly be re-deployed. This has advantages not only in severe gusty conditions where it is a safely factor – but also in the much more likely, flukey light conditions when the question is open as to whether to row or to sail.  (How many times have we put the sail up only to find the wind drops away. Then you have to drop the sail and get out the oars. No sooner done that, than a little puff of wind makes you want to sail again. With a junk rig, with its lift cradle, you can drop the sail, or redeploy, in seconds, without leaving your seating position. The blue Halibut sail, No. 1, top left above, with its running topping lift and ability to brail upwards, ought to be especially a winner in this respect).

    As for reefing while under way – not something you would very often be doing in an 8’ dinghy – dropping the lot would be more likely (which, as just described, is where the junk rig shines) - but the ability to dump 30% and still have a rig which sails – or more likely, the ability to increase sail area by 50% in an instant if you sail into a wind shadow – these are things which make sailing a dinghy both practical and fun.

    My own opinion, in aswer to Clive, is: definitely opt for the sprit rig rather than the gunter rig for this particular boat. 

    The sprit rig is about the simplest there is and not a bad choice for starters - but don't be disuaded from trying a simple little junk rig if you feel inclined - you can make your own sail, no fancy fittings are required, and the little extra complication does give a corresponding reward, as described above. Just keep it simple and don't go beyond three panels, or four at the most.

    The sprit rig and the junk rig both call for a free-standing mast. 

    (The gunter rig mast is supported by shrouds (rigging, or "stays") - you don't want "stays" for a junk rig, free standing mast is more suitable). 

    The junk rig will need a longer mast than the sprit mast, [except for the Halibut rig which needs only a short mast] and the sprit rig is easier to lift out and pack away  at the end of the day - but the junk rig is more flexible (and in my opinion better) while actually out on the water, especially in changeable conditions, though it's not as if you will be travelling long distances in your 8' dinghy. The choice of rig is not really such a big deal. In some ways I agree with Slieve. But the fun of a little sailing dinghy is all to do with "messing about", and if you want a junk rig then by all means have one.

    Mast position. The beauty of something as small as this is that nothing is terribly critical.

    Because you can move your weight a little, and adjust the centreboard or the daggerboard, the precise mast placement won't affect the handling much. You could use the sprit rig mast position, or aft a little, perhaps - in any case the mast needs to go through something at the level of that forward thwart, as it is a free-standing mast and needs something to support it.

    I agree with Herb in preferring the swing centreboard, but it's not a game changer, and it adds complication to the build - especially in this design as it seems to swing right through the middle thwart. That dagger board arrangment there looks a bit simpler.

    As Curtis mentioned, do be sure to check out the JRA Dinghy Design Competition which also includes some tiny junk rigs to look at.

    Last modified: 02 Dec 2025 00:21 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 30 Nov 2025 22:10
    Reply # 13568165 on 13568073
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    EDIT: But... is sailing even a safe activity?

    At least much much safer than to drive to the harbour !

    Eric

  • 30 Nov 2025 15:53
    Reply # 13568073 on 13566074

    Maybe I'm still missing something, but I can tell you that I really feel safer sailing with a junk sail (origami SJR). For over fifty years, I've only used Bermuda/gaff/square sails, but for the past two years, I can't imagine sailing with anything but junk sails.

    Probably – some actions are performed automatically, without remembering that they once had to be learned...

    Cheers - Jan

    EDIT: But... is sailing even a safe activity?

    Last modified: 30 Nov 2025 18:51 | Anonymous member
  • 30 Nov 2025 14:40
    Reply # 13568058 on 13566074

    Having built 4 junk rigs for boats in the 8 to 16 foot range my advice to a beginner sailor would be to start with the sprit main rig as designed in the plans for the Surf 8.  In the beginning keep everything simple, one can always increase complexity later.  On this vein of thought, I would also go with the centreboard rather than the dagger board option so you do not have deal with raising a dagger board when approaching the shore.

    Junk rigs typically are heavier than the rigs suggested for the Surf 8 design. This increased weight may make capsize recovery more difficult.  Capsize recovery is an important safety issue that always has to be considered in small boat sailing.  Also the multi part sheet used on a junk rig can more easily entangle the sailor that is trying to right a capsized dinghy.  This I learned by experience on my Puddle Duck Racer Peking Duck.

    The other problem with a junk rig that makes it difficult to fit on an 8 foot boat is that the sheet should be located so that it is anchored well behind the clew of the sail. In an 8 foot boat you do not have much length to play with.  A fan type junk sail with a short boom may work better in this regard compared to the style of sail I built on Peking Duck. In the case of my PD racer I had to place the mast close to the bow such that the tack of the sail is actually in front of the bow of the boat.  I was concerned that what this sail position would do to the boat handling and I can report that it seems to not make any difference in this case. One could always attach the sheet to a boomkin off the stern but this increases complexity for what should be a simple design.  Also for sail balance the centreboard will have to be positioned so that the centre of effort of the sail is aligned with the back edge of the centreboard.  In the case of Peking Duck the off-centreboard is well forward of where it would be for most other rigs.

    So why did I build a junk rig for an 8 foot boat? It was a whim nothing more but I have been sailing for 60 years and this was not my first build.

    Cheers,  Herb McLeod



  • 30 Nov 2025 10:06
    Reply # 13567985 on 13566074

    Slieve makes a very good point about the practicality of a junk rig on such a small boat, especially as you haven't yet learned to sail.  

    Perhaps you can decide, as you are still in the building stage, to build in the structure for the junk rig mast step for whatever junk sail plan you want to use, at the same time as building the mast step for the original sail plan laid down in the plans.

    So first I would learn to sail using either the original sail plan or a balance lug rig  , both with reef points.   

     Later, having become more confident in sailing, you could consider building a junk rig.  

    One of the difficulties with a very small unballasted dinghy which relies on being able to quickly release the sheet to help avoid capsizing in a sudden gust or squall, as Slieve has mentioned, is that with a full-on junk rig and sheeting system running through lots of pulleys, is that the friction going through all those pulleys may slow down the release of the sail enough that the boat goes over.  Small dinghies are very liable to capsize anyway.  

    An interesting alternative to the standard multipoint sheeting system used on larger yachts is the one used by a dinghy called "Ah-Sup" (a 9-foot Sabot dinghy) which featured in one of the JRA magazines. (Issue 73, page 48)  

    In this system, the mainsheet held by the helm goes through a turning block on the transom, as per any aft-mounted sheet on a "normal" rig.  

    But instead of being attached directly to the boom, per non-junk sails, (bermudan, etc), it is instead attached to a multipart block which in turn is attached using the usual multisheeting system to the different battens.  In this case, the loose end (which would normally be held by the helm), is tied off instead to a cleat.   

    So, when sailing, the mainsheet held by the helm could be released and would feed quickly through the single turning block mounted on the transom, just the same as any regular bermudan sail.

    For reefing, after dropping the required amount of panels, the excess line left was pulled through the multisheeting blocks and tied off,  in "Ah-Sup's" case, to the end of the bottom batten.  

    I used a similar system on my Wayfarer conversion, but brought the multisheet line forward to the mast where it could be cleated off with a little less worry about being hit by the boom/reefed sail bundle.  (Alas, I haven't sailed it, or any boat, much in the last few years)

    It worked well in the few practice reefs I did, but needed fine tuning and marks on the multisheeting line to make it easier to get the correct set for the sail when rehoisting. 

    The attached photo shows it more clearly, I think.  


    So I'd build to the original sail plan, but also, having decided what Junk rig I might like to use in the future, also build in the structure for the junk rig mast, as you are still in the building stage. 

    Then learn to sail with the original sail plan and at some stage in the future, perhaps build the junk rig, if you still want to do it. 

    Dave D 

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    Last modified: 30 Nov 2025 11:23 | Anonymous member
  • 30 Nov 2025 07:47
    Reply # 13567982 on 13566074

    Hi Jan,

    Your dinghy looks like an inflatable and therefore with a flat bottom and very stable. The Selway Fisher dinghy that Clive is building will not be anything like as stable, and if he is a raw beginner could be in for a very wet time with a multi part sheet in such a small boat. Small crew ballasted dinghies do not need a 5 or 6 stage of reefing rig, nor the complication that goes with them. Full rig and perhaps a 2/3 area for when it blows up to be too much for the crew should be adequate, so why make life more complicated. OK, so you want the 'sexy' appearance of a Junk rig, but only when you have learned to sail. 

    The much bigger and fairly stable 11 foot Mirror dinghy had the choice of main and jib or main only set up which made it a most versatile boat, so keeping it simple is not a bad idea.

    Cheers, Slieve.

  • 29 Nov 2025 18:12
    Reply # 13567905 on 13566074

    I don't want to be accused of being a sycophant, but I've never felt safer in a dinghy than in my Split Junk Rig'ed dinghy. Of course, almost always with the sheet in hand. Reefing takes 30 seconds; I've measured it many times.

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    Last modified: 29 Nov 2025 18:24 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Nov 2025 12:23
    Reply # 13567855 on 13566074

    Hi,

    I realise that you have received a number of responses which would encourage experimenting with a junk rig, but you say you have never sailed before and are building an 8 foot dinghy. Personally I can see no point in building anything more complicated than the simple sprit rig for such a small boat, or maybe a standing lug with one luff and leech reef point to reduce area on a windy day. Any form of junk sheeting would probably have too much friction for a light crew ballasted dinghy and probably be quite dangerous in gusty conditions. A balanced lug could have a single part sheet leading directly to the hand and not even use a transom block, and be much safer. 

    If you want safe fun go simple, if you want complication and concern then by all means try a junk rig, and wear a buoyancy aid!

    Cheers, Slieve.

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