A bigger rudder on Coromandel Siskin

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  • 08 Apr 2024 21:44
    Reply # 13340478 on 13293343

    Hi Asmat,

    The chainroller is not strong and really needs the strengthening you suggest. Richard broke his - description  in this blogpost;

    https://tammynorie.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/launch-weekend-part-2-yarmouth-to-lymington-via-newtown-creek/

    Best regards,

    Antoine


    Last modified: 09 Apr 2024 02:06 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Apr 2024 18:39
    Reply # 13340370 on 13339909
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hi Asmat,

    We'll see what the rudder- mod brings. I'll report back here.

    The mast was hinged. I found the construction in the mast flimsy and the mild steel slieve protecting the default hinge too heavy to actually use for going under bridges without waiting for them to open. Because those were the considerations for modifying the standard setup:

    • Strengthening a weakness;
    • Easy work on the masthead;
    • Avoid waiting for bridge / sleuce combination (in particular at Den Oever / Kornwerderzand)

    A fabricator made a more substantial hinge inside the mast and we found a lighter aluminium slieve which rests on a made to measure piece of pom which sits just above mast to cabin entry point. I re-enforced that point with six layers of bi-axle cloth + epoxy.

    I lower the mast once or twice a year but the slieve contraption requires attention every time I raise or lower the sail as the lines  drawing the buttons to the mast easily get caught and I need to pay attention when lowering the sail. These were no problems with the default flat cut heavy sail with the heavy buttons and the heavy wooden yard. A smaller (carbon?) sleeve might be better. Switching to slippery dyneema lines and low friction eyes fixed a lot of these problems.

    Another weird quick is that the sleeve is useable in summer but willl not move in winter - I am not making this up! So work on the top of the mast preferably on warm summer days next to the dock.

    In reality the mast is too heavy / I am not strong enough / the rig is too complex to use it for quickly lowering the mast on the water - something I did regularly on my Drascombe Gig.

     Siskin is too small / not set up for a real useful tabernacle and a mast in one piece. At least I don't see it. A tabernacle and a mast in one piece would be best.

    So all considered: a mixed blessing my mast slieve arrangement.

    Best regards,

    Antoine


    Hi Antoine,

    Thanks for your description of Siskin's mast hinge. Combined with Richard Brooksby's Tammy Norie blog, this is useful information. I have been wondering about the difficulty of walking the mast upward along a Coromandel's short cabin top and I'm not surprised you find it hard. I'll be 70 in a few weeks, so this is a significant matter! Perhaps a hinged strut with a 4 part tackle leading to the chain roller could make the job easier, as long as the chain roller is well secured below deck level. Rudolf uses such a system, and he has a carbon fibre mast.

    A kettle full of boiling water may help you to slide the sleeve in cold weather.

    Apologies for diverting off your rudder topic. I'd create a new mast hinge topic, but I don't know how to reply to your post under a new title.

    Asmat

  • 07 Apr 2024 02:58
    Reply # 13339909 on 13293343

    Hi Asmat,

    We'll see what the rudder- mod brings. I'll report back here.

    The mast was hinged. I found the construction in the mast flimsy and the mild steel slieve protecting the default hinge too heavy to actually use for going under bridges without waiting for them to open. Because those were the considerations for modifying the standard setup:

    • Strengthening a weakness;
    • Easy work on the masthead;
    • Avoid waiting for bridge / sleuce combination (in particular at Den Oever / Kornwerderzand)

    A fabricator made a more substantial hinge inside the mast and we found a lighter aluminium slieve which rests on a made to measure piece of pom which sits just above mast to cabin entry point. I re-enforced that point with six layers of bi-axle cloth + epoxy.

    I lower the mast once or twice a year but the slieve contraption requires attention every time I raise or lower the sail as the lines  drawing the buttons to the mast easily get caught and I need to pay attention when lowering the sail. These were no problems with the default flat cut heavy sail with the heavy buttons and the heavy wooden yard. A smaller (carbon?) sleeve might be better. Switching to slippery dyneema lines and low friction eyes fixed a lot of these problems.

    Another weird quick is that the sleeve is useable in summer but willl not move in winter - I am not making this up! So work on the top of the mast preferably on warm summer days next to the dock.

    In reality the mast is too heavy / I am not strong enough / the rig is too complex to use it for quickly lowering the mast on the water - something I did regularly on my Drascombe Gig.

     Siskin is too small / not set up for a real useful tabernacle and a mast in one piece. At least I don't see it. A tabernacle and a mast in one piece would be best.

    So all considered: a mixed blessing my mast slieve arrangement.

    Best regards,

    Antoine


    Last modified: 07 Apr 2024 06:37 | Anonymous member
  • 06 Apr 2024 10:05
    Reply # 13339728 on 13293343

    Antoine, I hope this end plate will give your helm more authority. Perhaps it will also act as an anti-pitching device, smoothing out the bumps in the IJsselmeer.

    I'm also interested to see a clear view of your mast hinge's sliding sleeve. Did Siskin already have a hinged mast, or did you modify it yourself?

    Asmat


  • 06 Apr 2024 08:21
    Reply # 13339722 on 13293343

    Goodmorning,

    Finished article installed.

    Back in the water next week.

    Best regards,

    Antoine

    2 files
  • 15 Mar 2024 13:15
    Reply # 13329942 on 13329690
    Anonymous wrote:

    Good luck Antoine

    I hope you have had some sailing time with the original rudder before making this one, so you can assess any changes in behaviour.
    My armchair guess is that your new rudder will perform quite a bit better.

    Cheers,
    Arne


    Or fit an end plate to one side only, to let Antoine compare the difference between tacks?
  • 14 Mar 2024 23:16
    Reply # 13329762 on 13293343

    About 8 years, this will be my 9th season on Siskin.


  • 14 Mar 2024 21:07
    Reply # 13329690 on 13293343
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Good luck Antoine

    I hope you have had some sailing time with the original rudder before making this one, so you can assess any changes in behaviour.
    My armchair guess is that your new rudder will perform quite a bit better.

    Cheers,
    Arne


    Last modified: 14 Mar 2024 21:07 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Mar 2024 14:38
    Reply # 13329477 on 13293343

    And there it is. 

    Try to get it installed next week.

    Back in the water the 14th of April.

    I'll report on what it brings and what I lose.


    2 files
  • 23 Dec 2023 15:44
    Reply # 13294038 on 13293343
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Bonjour

    With the two long and flat bilge keels, the skeg and the small rudder Mingming has a tendancy to go strait ahead. It's nice when you sail offshore.

    With such a long low profile surfaces the efficiency of the rudder will anyway be limited.

    I added some camber (beheind the mast)  in the (flat) sail by using flexible battens and a double sheeting system. When I sail headwind, the helm if not firm at all but set far to windward (about 40°). It induces heavy turbulences.

    To tack, I must take some speed and inertia and then put the helm slowy almost awarship. At the end of the tack, the speed is almost to zero and the boat drifts until the speed increases to allow the keals to grip on the watter.

    Some improvements could be made :

    - add some stuff (epoxy foam for example) on the inside of the keels to provide some ort of (assymetrical) profile.

    - add endplates to the lower part of the keels but they should be sufficiently solid to support the grounding efforts.

    - add some stuff(epoxy foam for example)  to the skeg and ruder to provide some sort of profile.

    -extend the ruffer downward (balanced towards in front of the lower part of the skeg) to the level of the keel and backward to increase the rudder surface.

    - add endplates to the lower part of the rudder.

    Eric


    Last modified: 23 Dec 2023 15:49 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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