Ilvy racing

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  • 04 Jun 2025 16:40
    Reply # 13506661 on 13500394
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Anonymous wrote:

    You remember that tufting experiment on Ilvy last summer? Those telltales, spread all over the sail, definitely helped a lot - though I could only see the lee side telltales of the sun was on the right side. Sewing in some telltale windows would help here, but then we are talking about some fancy-schmancy regatta stuff :-D


    Bonjour

    You don't need to sow the telltale windows. It would be easy to glue them with some appropriate glue. The efforts in the material is very small.

    I used some 25mm wide 3M 927 glue film to assemble Mingming's wing rear part. I used Tyvex and it's not a material that is known for it's gluable performance. 

    I tested with a 10 cm join and it hold 60 kg before it broke. It was not the glue that failed but the surface of the Tyvex.

    Eric

  • 04 Jun 2025 16:27
    Reply # 13506650 on 13502514
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Anonymous wrote:Result: 5th place, out of 5 in Ilvy's group. Last, again. Quite frustrating. The folkeboats simply pointed a bit higher while being faster - and I surely need to train more on my upwind junk rig helming. I'm still pinching too much (didn't fasten the luff telltales yet).

    Bonjour

    In such conditions, only the best racers are racing. 

    The important thing is not to be first or last but not to be overwelmed by all the others and ending half an hour after.

    Eric

  • 31 May 2025 12:55
    Reply # 13505154 on 13499881

    Arne

    (..about to go sailing on a trimaran...)


    ...about to be jealous! 

    Paul

  • 31 May 2025 12:38
    Reply # 13505153 on 13499881
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul,
    I bet you have access to the race results with the sailing time for all the boats in you handicap group. From there it is doable to find the average of their sailing time. This would let you calculate the needed speed increase you need for Ilvy to end up in the middle of the group.

    Cheers,
    Arne

    (..about to go sailing on a trimaran...)

    (Edit: Oooh, we did over 7 knots much of the time and touched 8,2kts  -  in light winds...)


    Last modified: 31 May 2025 16:46 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 29 May 2025 10:01
    Reply # 13504323 on 13499881

    Arne,

    You are right, Ilvy's mast is a good cruising mast! That's what I wanted and what I designed it to be. I'm glad it worked out so well. Nevertheless, I simply find it interesting to understand the phaenomena behind her performance - which doesn't necessarily mean I want to change the rig ;-)

    I really pushed Ilvy's rig to some limits, at least to the limits which are available to put her to. Two weeks ago, she hit 8.1 kn on a beam reach, that's about 2 kn above hull speed. It felt like she really wanted to take off and glide away, if it was'nt for her weight and round belly. The battens were bending a bit, but nothing to be afraid of. The mast was bending a bit, but still within what I consider safe. Of course that was flat sea conditions - I do not claim to have any serious offshore experience, and simply am not able to test her in those conditions.


  • 26 May 2025 09:23
    Reply # 13503227 on 13499881
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul,

    My guess is that the mast is a little bigger than needed, both taller, thicker and heavier than the mast of my Ingeborg.

    • ·         Its length is 11m versus 9.7 on Ingeborg
    • ·         It is 170mm thick versus 150mm on my boat. Higher windage of the naked mast.
    • ·         The way the top section is shaped, makes the walls thicker up there and this moves the CG of the mast upwards.
    • ·         Its weight is around 60kg versus around 53kg on Ingeborg, even though Ilvy weighs only around 2000kg ,while Ingeborg weighs 2150kg.
    • ·         The sail generally rides higher up, creating more heeling moment than on my boat.

    These factors are not enough to kill the performance of Ilvy, but for racing, their combined impact may well reduce her performance with 1-2% (..what do I know...), and that is noticeable when racing.

    I suggest you just accept this as it is, calling that mast a cruising mast.

    Enjoy the season!

    Arne


    Last modified: 27 May 2025 09:18 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 25 May 2025 19:12
    Reply # 13503151 on 13499881

    Arne,

    just in short: the wednesday regatta in the Kiel fjord is a true round cours:


    Mast is about 11 m long (overall), with 177 mm / 4 mm at the base, only starting to get conical above 4 m length from the bottom. Wall thickness at the top is more like 7 mm, I guess due to how Nedal manufactures those poles. Weight: about 60 kg.

    Folkeboats: Yes, they are fast ones, especially when its blowing. However, with her original, worn BM rig Ilvy was very slightly outrunning folkeboats upwind in the few wednesday regattas I sailed her before the conversion, while slowly been overtaken downwind (due to the long boom/huge main of a folkeboat and the small main of a Maxi 77). That gives a clue that my JR on Ilvy is right now a little bit less able upwind as her original BM rig. 

    Cheers

    Paul

  • 23 May 2025 09:53
    Reply # 13502522 on 13499881
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul,
    thanks for letting us hear about your racing experience. You are asking for much if you want to beat Folkboats to windward, in particular if their crews are good. I crewed in a Folkboat for years in our local Wednesday races. They surely are good upwind in the conditions you describe.
    Still, by racing, and having other boats of similar size around you, it is easier to learn to wring out a little more boat speed.

    These races around the cans mostly favour upwind performance as they generally start at the leeward mark and finish at the weather mark, after one or two rounds. Right?

    S-bending of the battens.
    This didn’t look so bad  -  what are the dimensions of the battens? My guess is that 22-25% mast balance (or should I rename it sail balance?) is what leads to minimum batten bend in this or that way. On my Ingeborg, the boom and two top battens are Ø50 x 1.5mm and the other battens are Ø35 x 2mm.I never notice any bend in them. Mast balance around 15-17%

    Mast.
    In these conditions, the weight and windage of the mast start playing a role. What are the dimensions and weight of Ilvy’s mast?

    Windex.
    You appear to have a Windex.
    I find it very useful to use the two vanes (hopefully set up symmetrically) to help me settle on a good close-hauled course after each tacking.

    Keep up the good work!

    Arne


    Last modified: 23 May 2025 10:12 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 23 May 2025 08:06
    Reply # 13502514 on 13499881

    2nd wednesday regatta of the season in the Kiel fjord. It was blowing F5-6 gusting to 7. Only 15 yachts participated in three groups (instead of usually 40). 2 boats had to abort due to ripped foresails.

    We've been three crew onboard Ilvy: two sitting on the windward edge, me at the tiller. Due to the easy junk rig reefing, sailingat those conditions in fact didn't feel and went any other than at F4. Only, it was a bit more wet. 

    We started with three panels reefed, but unreefed one panel shortly after the start signal. Overall, we reefed/unreefed about 5-6 times (it was gusty, and the Kiel fjord is spicked with wind shadows...).

    Result: 5th place, out of 5 in Ilvy's group. Last, again. Quite frustrating. The folkeboats simply pointed a bit higher while being faster - and I surely need to train more on my upwind junk rig helming. I'm still pinching too much (didn't fasten the luff telltales yet).

    However, we again raised some eyebrows and were complimented about the sail construction and especially about the choice of sail color. 

    There is a lot of potential, and I take it on me to get better! Anyways, I get the feeling that already only the presence of a junk rig at that regatta is good advertisement, regardless of her placement :)

    4 files
  • 19 May 2025 16:32
    Reply # 13500815 on 13499881

    Eric, Arne,

    thanks for your input! I agree, she slows down too much while pinching, dramatically increasing leeway. Summed up, I need to work on my steering. From bm sailing I'm used to steering by the luff telltales, one in luv and one in lee. I'm missing those on my sail right now - I think that's why I tend to leave the groove too oftenly. Luckily, those are not too hard to make.

    About thightening the sheets: I pull as long as the sail comes closer to amidships. There is always that one point where, if I pull even harder, the sail is not closing more but is mostly being drawn aft (by mast bending) by the sheets. I avoid that, and just haul in up to the point where this aft-drawing is just not happening. The end of the boom is then just above the gunwales.

    We cleaned Ilvy's hull three days before the regatta...

    Last modified: 19 May 2025 16:36 | Anonymous member
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