The Drascombe Lugger

<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
  • 10 Oct 2026 07:03
    Reply # 13737510 on 13724268

    Mast partners for a 6m unstayed mast. (Another design constraint for the Drascombe Lugger is that the mast must fit inside the boat for storing and towing.).

    Would a new thwart running across the boat, over the present thwart, where the present mast is mounted, of 30mm marine ply made of two lots of 15mm, supported by knees at the gunwales work? The foredeck would be drained by limber holes in the ply at the hull.  How would an aluminium mast and a ply deck accommodate expansion and contraction due to ambient temperature.

    Any comments? (Including 'you are mad. Stop now.')

    I am still seeking information from the builders of what presently lies under the grp at the foot of the mast. To make some plans for the foot of the unstayed mast.



  • 07 Oct 2026 15:47
    Reply # 13732820 on 13724268
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I guess the only real reason for fitting a JR to a dinghy that already has a working rig, is that we want to do it.

    My Oslo-dinghy Broremann was almost as big as that Drascombe Lugger. The conversion of the rig surely cost some work and head-scratching to get it right, but from then on, sailing-wise she  was pure bliss.

    The 7-panel layout gave me almost step-less adjustment of the sail area, and with the 1-part halyard and the running parrels cleated right next to me, I had control.

    That was the main thing with such a ‘complicated’ rig on such a small boat  -  control in all conditions.

    Arne

    Last modified: 07 Oct 2026 15:51 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 05 Oct 2026 10:09
    Reply # 13729702 on 13724268

    The Lugger's yawl rig can sail under storm canvas:  jib and mizzen alone. I'd hate to lose that versatility. Why introduce complexity to a beautifully simple design?

  • 04 Oct 2026 20:28
    Reply # 13729312 on 13724268
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Bonjour

    You don't need to have the mast in the center line of the boat. It might be easier to have it against the side wall of the locker for example.

    Eric

  • 04 Oct 2026 12:14
    Reply # 13729013 on 13724268

    Thank you. I am unsure of how much stress the thwart would put on the deck and I am tying to get advice from an expert on cutting knees. That should not be too hard as there is an open locker access immedatly ajacent to this area.  I coud fit a thick piece over the existing seat with a hole cut in it to accommodate the sleeve so perhaps the rig could be reversed later.  I have never poker around this area so I will have a look next time I am down there.  The weather here is trying to make up for the drought and we have been Cevenoles, you may have seen pictures of Montpellier.

  • 04 Oct 2026 10:54
    Reply # 13728974 on 13724268
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    From a distance one can only guess.

    I looked on the internet and there seem to be a lot of different versions of the Drascombe lugger in the mast support detail.

    Perhaps your layout is like this one.

    If so, then I think the minimum would be to build a short plywood decking which replaces or goes over the top of that little varnished seat (it is not a thwart) and spans the full width of the boat there, fastened and bonded firmly to the existing side decks and perhaps also a little of that foredeck.. There does appear to be a kind of sloping bulkhead there, which adds to the structure and could act as "knees".  Provided the amount of "bury" is at least 10% of the mast length above this deck (from Arne’s diagram it looks as though it would be) that might be enough. 

    Without being "hands on" I would not like to be responsible for the decision, but that is something you could consider, which would not be a major job, and could also be reversible.

    Otherwise, maybe consider Arne’s alternative advice and just set up your existing rig so that it can be managed as easily as possible without having to leave the helm: – roller furling headsail, lazyjacks on the main and main halyard readily to hand, some way to braile the mizzen. It’s a delightful little boat and messing about with these things is what it’s all about.


    Last modified: 04 Oct 2026 10:59 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 04 Oct 2026 08:34
    Reply # 13728937 on 13724268

    Thank you Graeme.  I think that i have explain the Drascombe Lugger's layou. If you refer to Arne's sketch you will see that the placement of mast is constrained by a forecastle forward and the centreboard casing after.  The CE is given in the designers notes and the CLR is movable with the centreboard hight.

    My most immediate problem is the securing of the mast sleeve.  At the base there is an enclosed hog of wood.  It's the partners that give me the problem.  Using the thwart that could be easily thickened is not the problem.  The problem is what to attach it to.  At present the thwart bears the load through a tabernacle  and the mast is supported by shrouds.  The thwart is secured to some lightweight mouldings forming seats and open lockers with four small bolts.  Do i have to extend the thwarts to the hull and attached knees there?


  • 04 Oct 2026 04:53
    Reply # 13728855 on 13724268
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Richard, you wrote “… the Center of Effort. was designed with the gunter rig to be just before the mast to give slight weather helm…” That is incorrect, and seems to indicate some confusion. To begin with, the “centre of effort” of your yawl sail plan is well aft of the mast, somewhere on a vertical line which passes through the forward half of your centreboard case.

    Centre of Effort (CE) and Centre of lateral resistance (CLR) are both misnomers, as neither means exactly what it says. Both of these points are static centres, calculated by geometry, to act purely as a theoretical guideline to the designer. In real life, the centre of pressure of the combined sail plan moves around quite a lot, according to how the sails are trimmed – and even affected by how the sails are cut.

    Similarly, the actual centre of lateral resistance of the hull also moves quite a lot, according to the angle of heel of the hull, how the vessel is trimmed, and (in your case) adjustment of the centreboard.

    CLR and CE and how much “lead” (ie how far ahead of the CLR should the CE be placed), are matters of fine judgement (or guesswork) on the part of the designer, based on his/her knowledge and experience of that hull design and that type of rig. The goal is to find the best compromise in terms of helm balance – a small amount of weather helm in normal conditions if possible.

    Generally, when converting a boat to junk rig, it has been found from experience that we can put the CE (the geometric centre) of the junk rig to coincide with about the same position (on a vertical line) as the CE chosen by the designer, for the original rig, unless practical knowledge of the way the boat handles, dictates otherwise. This normally means moving the mast forward, to allow the two sail plans to have coinciding geometric centres.

    Your case is a little different because (a) you wanted to keep the mast in its original position and (b) your original rig is yawl, which means the main mast is already a little further forward than it would have been if it were a sloop.

    Arne has taken advantage of that, by putting a suitable junk sail on the existing mast position, leaving the mizzen sail out of the calculation, thus achieving a CE position approximately where it was originally designed to be (just a little smidgeon forward actually, but he knows what he is doing). The mizzen is no longer needed and there may be times (eg heeling in a strong breeze while hard on the wind, with the centreboard fully down, when the addition of a mizzen sail might create too much weather helm – although that remains to be seen.) As Arne says, since you already have it, why not try it anyway? There will certainly be some points of sail, when you can raise the centreboard and shift your weight aft a little, where the Johanna sail with the mizzen also pulling, could balance very satisfactorily. You have a lot of flexibility with a dinghy and these CE and CLR things are not tyrants, only guidelines for optimal conditions. If you follow Arne’s advice, and add some practical experience of your own with regard to sail trim, use of centreboard etc you can probably have the best of both worlds, even if there are occasions when your first reef will be to drop the mizzen – in other situations it may well earn its keep.

    As I tried to explain before (I didn’t explain it very well) if you want to keep the mizzen AND utilise the main mast in its current position AND still have approximately the same CE/CLR relationship, then you will need to have a junk sail with more than normal proportion of its area ahead of the mast (high balance) and the most extreme in this regard, which is also well proven, is a SJR sail (split junk rig) with 33% - 35% balance.

    You have flexibility with a dinghy and either option would be satisfactory, I think. I happen to like the SJR solution, but Arne’s suggestion would be just as good – maybe better – there is still nothing to stop you from experimenting with the mizzen sail and enjoying its special advantages (heaving-to etc) if you want to. You will soon find when it helps and when it doesn’t.

    As for engineering the support for a free-standing mast – it’s only a dinghy, for goodness sake. Just fix the heel of the mast on the keel, and make sure the thwart is robust enough and fastened well enough to the hull, with proper knees, so that the mast can’t rip it free – it’s not rocket science. The higher from the mast heel is that “partner” support the better – if you are concerned you might mount a thwart at gunnel level. The distance from the mast heel to the thwart must be no less than 10% of the length of mast above the thwart, is the usual rule of thumb, and the more the better. What's the worst that could happen?


    Last modified: 04 Oct 2026 05:12 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 03 Oct 2026 11:18
    Reply # 13728250 on 13724268
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Sorry mate,

    without a copy of your boat in Stavanger to look at, I can give no concrete advice on how to fit that JR mast. There is also the question about how often and fast you need to be able to lower or raise the mast.

    Maybe you will be better off by keeping the rig you have? I can think of 2-3 steps of improving it.

    The first is to simply fit a downhaul to the jib, if it doesn’t already is on a roll.

    The second is to fit a sprit boom to the mizzen to tame and control that sail much better than today.

    Step three may be to even give the mainsail a sprit boom.

    While still sailing my Broremann with Bermudan rig, the tactics at returning outside the inlet of the inner harbour, was to run into the wind, quickly haul down the jib and then lower and secure the mainsail to the boom. With the cockpit tidied up, I re-set the jib and could sail with it back into the berth. If the wind was unfavourable for that, I instead shipped the oars and rowed in.

    Your three sails, now with much better control of the mizzen and jib, should give you several options for safely handling changing wind conditions.

    That is what this is about, isn’t it?

    Arne


    Last modified: 03 Oct 2026 19:04 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 03 Oct 2026 09:00
    Reply # 13728177 on 13724268

    The whole of my project seems to revolve around the cost of modifying the hull of a Lugger to accommodate the Junk Mast.  

    Arne's sketch seems to suggest a sleeve supported on the hog of the lugger and at the thwart partners.  Could you clarify how the support could be made?

    The sketch also shows the boat with a single main sail. Given that the Center of Effort. was designed with the gunter rig to be just before the mast to give slight weather helm and the Center of Lateral resistance is variable with the centreboard setting how does this work?

<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >>