Ingeborg, Arne's Marieholm IF

  • 23 Jun 2016 16:38
    Reply # 4094513 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Balance problem solved

    Today we had a third sail in Ingeborg. This time I made ready a longer tack parrel which I replaced the first one with, after hoisting sail. Then, this time I set up the yard hauling parrel, YHP, before the throat hauling parrel, THP. As you can see on the attached photos, this has shifted the sail about 150mm forward, compared to on the test-sail, two days ago (on Johanna I developed the habit of hauling in on the THP first, to bring the sail aft, and remove lee helm).

    This had the desired effect. In light winds Ingeborg is now next to neutral on the helm, and it remains light as the wind picks up. The resulting position of the CE is still 150mm (2.5% of wll) aft of the Bermuda rig’s CE, which is as it should be. A bonus is that THP- and YHP forces seem lighter than with the sail hauled aft. At the end of the little trip, the sail was lowered and came down as it should. Win-win!

    I also tested the home-made tiller brake/lock, similar to the one used on Frøken Sørensen. This is the last and final development step of it, starting on Broremann in 2009 (Check “Broremann” on Youtube). Ingeborg went straight as an arrow across the fjord, with it on, see photo below.

    That’s more like it. I am still doing fine-adjustments to the sheetlets, and I also have to find optimal cleat positions for the sheet, the YHP and the THP. But it is about to become fun!

    Arne

    The album 4 was lost by Wild Apricot, so I let you have this from Photo Album 5, taken in 2017


     

    Last modified: 07 Feb 2024 21:50 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 22 Jun 2016 23:32
    Reply # 4092219 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David,
    there is a lot of "optics" going on when watching sails, in particular when watching cambered panel junks. The photo below was taken a short while later, but with the sun coming at a different angle, the sail suddenly appears to be flatter.

    Annie,
    it has much to do what tiller forces I am used to (but not only that).  I hope to get a chance to test-sail Ingeborg again, tomorrow. Today I have made a tiller brake to keep the boat steady when hoisting sail ( or else she will use up the bay while I am hoisting sail). The tiller brake, which is an improved version of the one used on Broremann and Frøken Sørensen (FS), will hopefully let me sail across the fjord, hands off, as on FS.

    Arne

     

     

    Last modified: 22 Jun 2016 23:34 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 22 Jun 2016 22:13
    Reply # 4092141 on 4090879
    Arne Kverneland wrote:Still, close-hauled we went just below 5.0kts and when beam-reaching, we touched 6.2, so it is not bad.

    Arne

    A masterpiece of understatement, Arne! Most people would be more than happy with those speeds!

    I dare say even a Folkboat will feel quite shippy after your little Frøken.  I hope you soon get used to the difference.  It will be interesting to hear if you get rid of the weather helm.  It's one of the many advantages of junk rig, that you can make significant adjustments to the CE of the rig by just tweaking a few lines!

    Last modified: 22 Jun 2016 22:22 | Anonymous member
  • 22 Jun 2016 07:38
    Reply # 4090879 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    It could be, David,

    but I doubt it. The sail has been designed and cut the same way as the last three sails I have made, and the shadow pattern doesn’t look different from them.

    I therefore suspect other reasons.

    • ·         The CE of this rig is 300mm aft of the CE of the Bm rig when the sail is set with 10% balance. I can easily increase the balance to 13 – 15% by moving the sail 200 – 250mm forward.

    • ·         I am a spoilt kid. After having had only fin-keel boats with balanced spade rudders for the last 35 years, I am used to fingertip control, even when the rudder is set at some angle. The big unbalanced rudder of a folkboat has higher tiller forces, even at a low rudder angle.  I have sailed a lot in folkboats, so know them well.

    • ·         I should not worry about speed until I have put on new antifouling. She is quite dirty. Still, close-hauled we went just below 5.0kts and when beam-reaching, we touched 6.2, so it is not bad.

    Arne

     

  • 22 Jun 2016 06:46
    Reply # 4090850 on 3032430

    Looking at this photo, Arne, the shadows seem to be showing that the depth of camber in the top three panels is rather far aft. Is this an optical illusion? If not, I reckon this to be a cause of weather helm and dull performance. I know, I know, it would be a nuisance to have to take the sail off and resew those panels a bit flatter, but maybe it would better to do this than move the sail forward? 

  • 21 Jun 2016 23:58
    Reply # 4090641 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Second sail in Ingeborg

    Today we had the second test sail of Ingeborg. In a stronger F3  -  F4 she performed fairly well, but not spectacularly so. She does need to be slipped and have her bottom repainted. In addition, I think she had a bit too much weather helm this time. Studying my photos of the sail, I see I can shift the sail quite a bit forward, at least 20cm without having to move batten parrels. I just need to replace the standing tack parrel, which was too short.

    We did a few gybes with full sail, and so far there has not been any sheet tangle. The sail itself sets well, after I adjusted the HK parrels of the two lowest panels. Still, there is a bit adjustment left to do with the sheetlets: I always tie them on with a bit too much rope, so I can shorten them until I am happy.

    I do feel I am getting better control now: A good indication is that I sailed Ingeborg right back into her berth, just as I use(d) to with the others.

    Arne

    (the album has been lost)

     

     

    Last modified: 06 Apr 2023 13:35 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Jun 2016 10:24
    Reply # 4082968 on 4082217
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Steve Liebig wrote:

    Masterfully done, Arne!


    Thanks Steve.

    This was actually the first sail I have made for myself which is based on one from my line of master sail designs   -  the one with AR=1.90. It is fairly low and broad, but I like it that way. There are not many rigs which spread 35sqm and still lets one pass under a 10m bridge  -  without setting a jib on a bowsprit.

    Last modified: 19 Jun 2016 07:51 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Jun 2016 10:14
    Reply # 4082959 on 4082233
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Phil Brown wrote:

    It must be so satisfying to get to this point.  Will you use a pair of rolling hitches with shoemaker splices to attach you lazy Jacks line to your topping lift? Also what knot(s) do use use to  attach the aft end of you batten and Hong Kong parrels to the battens.?

    Phil


    Phil,

    I will basically use the same style of sail catcher as used on Frøken Sørensen (that black bridle). That involves hoops tied to the topping lifts with rolling hitches and shoemaker's splices and also a hoop tied to the boom.  This is one reason why I like to use 3-strand rope when I can  -  so easy to splice one way or the other.

    The photo below shows how the HK parrel and batten parrel is tied on. This was an early version. I later cut the line for HK parrel longer to let me secure it with a trucker's knot. That gives a 3-part purchace and is easier to adjust with load on it. The main thing is the hose-clamp, which secures two hoops; one for the HK parrel and one for the batten parrel.

  • 18 Jun 2016 02:30
    Reply # 4082233 on 3032430
    Deleted user

    It must be so satisfying to get to this point.  Will you use a pair of rolling hitches with shoemaker splices to attach you lazy Jacks line to your topping lift? Also what knot(s) do use use to  attach the aft end of you batten and Hong Kong parrels to the battens.?

    Phil

  • 18 Jun 2016 01:05
    Reply # 4082217 on 3032430
    Anonymous

    Masterfully done, Arne!