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  • 11 Jul 2020 23:33
    Reply # 9095621 on 9087151

    I agree with Paul its great to see the response.


    David: with that bowsprit and possible bumpkin arrangement at the back, maybe the stated over-all length is a bit ambiguous. The sail plan has a lot of dimensions if you can scale up those tables, to get a reasonably accurate scale factor. eg the main mast is 15000 above deck.

    Arne: the sail plan is hi-res and can be scaled up. 

    You can go to my photo album they are in the Coln folder here Or, if it is any help, here are the sail dimensions copied from that sail plan. I can't make it any bigger here, but if you go to the folder and take the image to your desktop they will scale up as big as you want.





    Last modified: 11 Jul 2020 23:43 | Anonymous member
  • 11 Jul 2020 20:36
    Reply # 9095438 on 9087151

    Hi Hazel,

     I can’t wait to see Colne Spray Sailing on the Blackwater, I reckon she’ll be a majestic sight, especially if there are any Thames Barges around for you to joust with.
    I’m  in the process of converting my Sadler 25 - BooTwo  to Split Junk Rig. She’s  down at Marconi SC on the south bank.
    I believe that Poppy, Slieve McGalliard’s former  boat and the original SJR, is currently at Brightlingsea, so with Colne Spray that will soon be THREE junk rigs on the Blackwater.

    Wow. 

    As a novice I can offer no advice, but what I absolutely love about the JRA, is that others can, and do which, you are already finding.

    Terrific.

  • 11 Jul 2020 17:52
    Reply # 9095222 on 9094990
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Anonymous wrote:

    You could try using the batten lengths to get a scale factor?

    There is a round bilge Spray at 45ft hull length.


    David,
    I did that first, and came to scale factors of between 0.865 and 0.868.
    The error simply seems to be too big to jump between 45’ and 52’.
    Could it be that the 45’ Spray design, along with Alan Boswell’s sailplan simply has been scaled up 16% to become 52’, and then built and rigged as that?

    Hazel, could I ask you to measure the distance between the masts, please? They should give the answer.

    Or...  ..maybe we could ask Alan Boswell to have a dive into his design archive and give us the LOA.

    Arne

    Last modified: 11 Jul 2020 18:13 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 11 Jul 2020 17:11
    Reply # 9095153 on 9087151

    I have measured it at 52’ , I agree as to the weight being as the plaque says 19 3/4 tonnes They obviously didn’t bother to convert the fractions in those days, the boat was originally owned by an actor of “Z-cars” fame I’m not sure if I should mention names but he was famous, it was sailed into St Osyth and was a very beautiful boat but the son who took over ownership, was an addict who trashed the boat, using it to grow marijuana.

    .So I’m  quite confident that she will perform well, I’ve no great aspirations to break records, I understand Sprays are not considered fast boats but are reliable. There is a one winch behind the cockpit, I can’t find any evidence of there being more. It does have an electric anchor winch, with an auxiliary drum, I’ve not got around to sorting it yet .

    many thanks for all your comments/ advice I’m trying to assimilate it all , I will get there.

    Hazel

  • 11 Jul 2020 15:52
    Reply # 9094990 on 9087151

    You could try using the batten lengths to get a scale factor?

    There is a round bilge Spray at 45ft hull length.

    Last modified: 11 Jul 2020 15:57 | Anonymous member
  • 11 Jul 2020 11:28
    Reply # 9094704 on 9087151
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thanks for that, David.

    When comparing your found total SA= 122sqm with my 165sqm, the linear factor between them is 0.860

    Problem is, if we multiply 52’ with 0.860, then the LOA of the hull will shrink to 44.72’. ‘Someone’ should bring out the measuring tape...

    Arne


  • 11 Jul 2020 10:31
    Reply # 9094620 on 9087151

    Arne,

    By zooming in close on a large screen, I can make out that the mizzen is 29.4, the main is 60.15, the fore is 32.45, total 122 sq m.

    The batten lengths are 3500, 5050 and 3700 respectively.

    Looking at Bruce Roberts' website, I see that the largest round bilged Spray is 50ft, so I'm wondering whether this boat is one of these? No mention of ferro, however.

    Last modified: 11 Jul 2020 10:37 | Anonymous member
  • 11 Jul 2020 10:07
    Reply # 9094573 on 9087151
    Anonymous member (Administrator)



    Since the original sailplan had too low resolution to let one read any of the numbers, I decided to import it into my QCAD program and trace the hull and rig there after assuming that the LOA of the vessel is 52’. The resulting sail area came out at a whopping 165 sqm.

    Knowing that the 49’ ferro-cement schooner, Samson (*) in Stavanger displaces about 23ton, I would guess that the 52’ Spray-design will weigh less than 30 ton.

    That should give a SA/Disp. > 17

    Samson, with only 107sqm sail, has a SA/Disp. = 13.4 and still sails very well, as those who sailed in her during the Stavanger rallies can witness. If new sails were made with camber in them, then I am sure that about 140sqm would move Colne smartly. Has anyone in the UK seen this vessel under sail? She cannot have been sailing around totally un-noticed during all those years?

    When eye-balling the current sailplan, and assuming that the keel is a standard Spray type, I would guess that the vessel will carry quite some weather helm with all sails up. I would anyway suggest that the rudder should be improved by adding quite broad endplates to it.

    David’s suggestion of using 3-part halyard makes sense to me, but whatever the gear ratio of halyard and winches, hoisting all that sail is too much work for one person. I therefore suggest adding an electric winch. With only a little ingenuity, this could serve both the main- and the foresail.

    Personally I would have brought out the angle grinder and removed the mizzen mast. This would give room for a wider mainsail with ample room for snag-free central sheeting. 

    Cheers,
    Arne

    PS: I notice that the number of JRA members just reached 900!

    ( *) Samson is a 45’Samson C-Deuce design, stretched to 49’ by increasing the frame spacing and by adding another frame at the middle.)


  • 11 Jul 2020 07:46
    Reply # 9094464 on 9087151

    Hello Hazel,

    That's quite a project for someone past three score and ten to take on - obviously you have more energy than I can dredge up at a similar age. I hope it all goes well.

    As I understand it, the mainsail is good enough to be used, so the sailplan is fixed as it is. It's as much area as could be fitted onto the hull anyway, so the performance will be what it will be. Given new sails, I'd be putting in 10% camber, to get the area driving a heavy boat as effectively as possible.

    I would use 3:1 halyards on all three sails, with selftailing winches, to cut down on the miles of string there's going to be. Size of winches matched to your size and strength, possibly 16:1 for fore and mizzen, 30:1 for the main.

    Sheeting is tight, and will probably snag when tacking, but this is a boat that isn't ever going to short tack up a narrow channel, so that may not be too serious. The deck is big enough to walk around twitching the sheets clear of the batten ends. I'd want to put port and starboard sheets on the mizzen, to sheet it close enough for windward work, to act as a riding sail, and to reduce snagging.

    With such tall sails, the middle of the sail tends to shunt fore and aft in a seaway, distorting the set. I think I'd try a second luff hauling parrel, at mid height, to keep some control over this area. Otherwise, the sailplan shows the normal YHP and LHP and this looks OK.

    Isn't the plaque recording the registered tonnage? 1 register ton is equivalent to 100 cubic feet of internal volume, so the registered tonnage of Colne is about 19 ¾ tons (nothing to do with displacement). She must have had Part 1 British Ship Registration at some point.

  • 10 Jul 2020 17:16
    Reply # 9093371 on 9087151

    Yes Arne they are cast into the keel, this is creating an interesting twist because not only have I got to go up top to sort the rigging I need to re-run masthead light cable and a coax cable for the aerial, both existing don’t test out well. The yard crane just reaches the same height as the main mast, so by the time you have a bosuns chair / basket it looks to be a bit short. However the boatyard owners are barge experts and do amazing things on their barge EDME with masts, sails ropes etc 

    As to my expectations,  at the moment I’ll have to see what she will do, after the hard work just to have her moving I’ll be content,  I know that sounds unprofessional but that’s the best I can do Regarding weight I’m not sure, there is a plaque that says 19. 76/100 tonnes which seems an odd figure, one expert said that’s what she is licensed to carry, but she’s not a barge !

    thanks for you interest Hazel

    ps I like red wine and drive a Land Rover.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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