Westerly Pageant conversion!

  • 24 May 2020 15:45
    Reply # 8989862 on 8987104
    Deleted user

    Wow Arne...

    All I have to do now is build the son of a gun ;-)

    Thanks for all your help. surpassed my expectations by a long way.

  • 24 May 2020 15:38
    Reply # 8989847 on 8987104
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    OK Paul,

    here is your seven panel rig, with 34.2 sqm! I think she will be fine with that rig, since she has both displacement, ballast and beam. I think she will be the fastest Pageant in town...

    Arne

    (See diagrams 27-32 on Arne’s sketches, section 4)

    Last modified: 27 Feb 2024 08:39 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 24 May 2020 15:18
    Reply # 8989806 on 8987104
    Deleted user

    Arne/ David

    This last design of Arne's looks like brilliant to me. Ticks all the boxes!

    I'll need a while to consider the rudder issue. The obstacles being the windvane must mount on the centerline or very near, with the water rudder vertical and lashed to the main assy. Then swing down from the centre to port thru 180 deg of arc to vertical, and then it's normal range of motion from side to side. I like the twin rudder idea a lot but it's going to get pretty busy on the transom with two rudders and w/v...

    Isn't your Duette twin rudder David? Any advice from a twin rudder perspective...

    Thanks ...


  • 24 May 2020 14:31
    Reply # 8989775 on 8987104
    Deleted user

    Thanks Mark

    I've never sailed either, thanks to Covid and distance from the boat.

    But I'm told the Pageant didn't suffer from the same keel issues (or probably not as much).

    The Pageant is supposed to be better under sail, particularly upwind, as long as you have some wind.

    As usual though, 10 sailors have 10 opinions ;-)

    Arne, thanks again for this.

    If the mast were slightly longer, I could raise the lower panel when ghosting?

    Light winds are the downfall of the Pageant I believe...

    I like twin keels - easy to build for the Pageant.

    I sailed an RM970 that had them and it went like a train & handled like a sports car

    (except reverse - shame about the price)

    David...Not quite like the Duette.

    I want the settee's pushed up against the fore-peak half bulkhead like the Dana 24. (previous image) with a 'Dana' table in a slot coming out from under the V-berth

    I would fit a sort of shower curtain full width behind the sea berths, so any (most)  spray doesn't get to them.

    I did it on my Albin Singoalla and it worked well, after a few changes of curtain material.

    It's just a soft bulkhead really, clipped together with velcro...Stows in a locker normally.

    I've sailed a lot in the tropics, and like most people, I hate a heat soaked cabin but love a dry rack, so I'm trying to seal off the berth area, but still use the head and stove 'weather permitting' offshore.

    I frequently leave the main hatch open just minutes too late - to let the heat out. But concurrently invite the spray in ;-(

    Thanks to all...


  • 24 May 2020 13:07
    Reply # 8989679 on 8989616
    Paul wrote:

    Thanks David

    You make a lot of sense. The image attached is Dana 24 and the fore-part of the cabin is what I'm after. But with a light weight storage area where the V berth is. I'll change the aft section to a simpler layout but this is my general idea. A two berth boat! 

    So are you really aiming for the layout that I have on my Duette 23 Weaverbird? Two settees with their after ends extending aft of the main companionway; the galley forward of them; the main bulkhead; and a forepeak containing the heads, the mast and light stowage?

    This is the Sonata, which is almost the same, but has the galley on only one side:

    1 file
    Last modified: 24 May 2020 13:09 | Anonymous member
  • 24 May 2020 12:37
    Reply # 8989635 on 8987104
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul,

    here is the sloop JR with lo-AR sail and the mast in the forward position. Basically it is a AR=1.80 sail which has had the lowest panel reefed away. Note how the short mast still can produce a sail with the same height as the Bermuda rig.

    This rig would call for a serious rudder; either one deep one or a pair of twin rudders with end-plates on. Twin rudders makes sense on a twin-keeler, anyway.

    I sailed for many years with an AR=1.87 sail on my Johanna, so I know it works. On this rig, I have not skimped on mast height, so it will be easy to make it set well.

    Arne

    PS: Disregard the CE marks on the waterline. They were for the yawl. On this sloop I aim for the same CE position as the Bermuda rig.


    (See diagrams 27-32 on Arne’s sketches, section 4)

    Last modified: 27 Feb 2024 08:38 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 24 May 2020 12:35
    Reply # 8989633 on 8987104

    Paul,

    I sailed with a friend on his Centaur for a while, may have looked like a caravan, but actually sailed surprisingly well.  Hopefully the Pageant will also surprise, and with any JR should be more pleasurable. 
    Word of warning, his Centaur did end up sinking when one keel fell off. Not sure if the Pageant also suffered 

  • 24 May 2020 12:25
    Reply # 8989616 on 8987104
    Deleted user

    Thanks David

    You make a lot of sense. The image attached is Dana 24 and the fore-part of the cabin is what I'm after. But with a light weight storage area where the V berth is. I'll change the aft section to a simpler layout but this is my general idea. A two berth boat! 

    1 file
  • 24 May 2020 11:19
    Reply # 8989584 on 8989517
    Paul wrote:

    David and Arne

    This design element has gone faster and farther than I thought it would. I expected some tips and guidance, but this is an order of magnitude more than I expected.

    I'm having difficulty keeping up with you guys ;-) 

    I'm thinking now that maybe I'm over-reaching with asking for a state of the art junk rig plus my own interior that creates problems for the rig design.

    I know nothing about CAD and don't know how much work I'm asking of you both. I can only say thanks a lot.

    Maybe I should re-think my interior design and go with the original suggestions of putting the stick thru the for'ard hatch? It would get me out sailing a lot quicker...

    What do you think?


    My view, having now had three long summers cruising in a similar sized boat, is to do the minimum necessary to make the accommodation workable. Life's too short, in one's  60s and 70s, to spend it doing major rebuilds when one could be cruising. I'd maybe want to rebuild the dinette, if you've got what is shown in sailboatdata, to make it a good passage-making berth, and leave it at that. It's a different story when fitting out to live aboard all year, then it's worth putting in the effort.

    So yes, I'd put the mast through the forehatch area with either Arne's or my first sailplans, which are both good fits with your cruising plans, and go and get some cruising in while you can. None of us knows if or when the Covid is going to creep up behind us and set all our plans at nought, so gather ye rosebuds while ye may.

    The good thing about CAD is that we can draw something just once, then quickly move/rotate/scale/combine/whatever. It's easy to draw half a dozen variations on a theme, then pick the best.

  • 24 May 2020 10:29
    Reply # 8989518 on 8987104
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Sorry Paul,

    I didn’t see your posting until I was to upload the two sketches below. The windvane may or may not be a showstopper.

    One way to get around it is to offset the mizzen mast. The mizzen will only be needed with the wind forward of the beam, and then it will steer the boat as well as any windvane. Downwind you can just furl the mizzen and let the windvane take over.

    Anyway, during the first summer you will be busy enough with local sailing, so the windvane will not be needed. You will be surprised how well you can control the boat with those two sails. The bonus of sitting quietly at anchor should not be forgotten. The mizzen could possibly also be useful at heaving to in a blow, with the mainsail furled.

    With a yawl, you suddenly move up in the Albert Strange League.
    What about painting ”Mrs. Strange” on her bow?

    Anyway, it is still October weather here, so I can just as well see if I can make a broad sloop rig work...

    Arne

    PS: You are worried about the work we do to drawing these rigs. Don't worry. Most of the work was in learning the CAD. I also have a string of master sails ready, so it is very much a matter of copy and paste. 
    BTW, I don't draw the running or standing lines in my rigs. You find them in Junk Rigs for Beginners


    (See diagrams 27-32 on Arne’s sketches, section 4)


    Last modified: 27 Feb 2024 08:37 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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