Boltropes and seams for sails

<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
  • 04 Mar 2011 00:50
    Reply # 538372 on 535055
    Deleted user
    Annie,

    I like the lapped seams you are talking about for the same reasons.  Arne's double/triple sewn seam looks similarly easy to do without turning anything over, so I may do it too.

    Did you sew your Fantail sail out of Odyssey III, or something similar?  I'm just trying to get a feel for how different the sewing we've got do will be.

    I think I understand how you assembled panels and batten pockets.  I didn't do batten shelf camber in CAD to get my panel construction, so I plan to do something more like Arne's normal method instead.

    And most importantly--thanks for pointing out that there is a place for just doing things instead of worrying about what could go wrong.  After I'm done, I'll figure out what is good enough and what isn't.  But I tend to research and think a lot, and (sometimes) not have to do a job two or three times as a result.  (I've been chewing on this rig design for three years now, even if I didn't really start serious work until a couple months ago!)

    Barry
  • 03 Mar 2011 23:46
    Reply # 538323 on 538058
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Barry & Meps / Stellrecht & Schulte wrote:

    Arne,
    ...
    I've got another question about your quick-and-easy construction of Malena's sail: You must have some panels too big to cut out of one piece of cloth.  What sort of seam did you use there, and what direction did you run the seams?  (I would find a seam more vertical or more perpendicular to the battens to seem stronger, but haven't built either.)

    ...
    Barry

    Stavanger, friday

    Barry

    You are right that the top panels of Malena were too wide for the cloth. I added a triangle in the upper corner in both of them with the seams running about parallel with the batten below. The joining seam were described in my letter about cambered panel junk sails; the sort which appeared triple seamed on one side and double on the other.

    Arne

  • 03 Mar 2011 22:38
    Reply # 538294 on 535055
    Oh boy - I'm so pleased I didn't read all this before I sewed up my sails or I would have never been able to decide what to do!  If you look at the photos in Annie Hill's Sailmaking Photos (third folder of files) you can see how I attached my batten pockets.  I am perfectly confident that they will last for as long as the sail, bar possibly a bit of chafe.
    I did a simple lapped seam for 3 reasons:

    1 it meant I didn't have to turn the sail over
    2 I could mark the seam allowance and have a nice line to align the cloth with  This is great when the double-sided tape comes agley because of all the bunching of the sailcloth.
    3 it made it very easy to run along two rows of stitching.

    We sewed Badger's sails this way, initially also thinking that there was still space for a third row of stitching, should the first two fail.  They never did.  As Arne says there is so little strain on the fabric that it's hard to believe.  At least with our more conventional sails.  I don't know if David's rig puts more stresses on the material.

    You will also see that I had to join pieces of fabric to make larger ones.  I kept the straight grain aligned and then cut them like they were off the roll.  If you see what I mean.

    Haven't, of course, tried the sail yet, but whatever my worries about the rig, I feel confident that this part of it will stand up to normal wear and tear.
  • 03 Mar 2011 18:01
    Reply # 538058 on 535055
    Deleted user
    Arne,

    OK, I'll believe that your easy panel joining seams hold up to sailing loads over lots of time.

    I've got another question about your quick-and-easy construction of Malena's sail: You must have some panels too big to cut out of one piece of cloth.  What sort of seam did you use there, and what direction did you run the seams?  (I would find a seam more vertical or more perpendicular to the battens to seem stronger, but haven't built either.)

    Note:  I know that chafe is much worse for ocean cruising than inland sailing, and I do plan to address that (later).  The panel seams appear to be a low chafe area except where they rub the lazy jacks.

    Barry
  • 03 Mar 2011 16:20
    Reply # 537944 on 535055
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Thursday

                            Joining batten panels

    In a letter above from Barry and Meps (28. Feb) they ponder over the way I join batten panels at the battens ("Amater method A or B). Could this taylor’s seam really be strong enough? All I know is that Malena’s sail has held up for about 16 summers now. Her sail is now falling apart from sunrot and flogging (the present owner doesn’t tie up the sail bundle after use), but the seams along the batten pockets and elsewhere have held up just fine. Malena hasn’t sailed much offshore, but still, if something was badly wrong with the method, the sail would have failed years ago. The fact that the stress along the battens is so low has to be experienced to be believed. An extra bonus if you go for the Amateur method B (used on the dinghy Broremann) is that the first seam is even better protected from shafe or sunshine than with the Amateur method A which I used on Malena. Still, don’t let these worries stop you. Go on and assemble the panels in conventional sailmaker’s style if you don’t trust the Malena method. This will be a lot more work, but that is not the end of the world.

    If you are to cut camber using the barrel cut method, I suggest you cut full size patterns from paper. Placing the patterns over the sail cloth, you will easily see how much you have to add to the cloth. Just make separate paper patterns for these extra lenses (barrel sides).

    The seat belt webbing sounds fine to me and the stuff makes fitting loops at the batten ends easy. Still, if you have doubts about its stiffness, I suggest you hand-stitch on a boltrope on the backside of the sail after the webbing is on. This can be done fairly quickly (4-6 hours pr sail) and then you get somewhere to tie the boom and yard to the sail too.

    Cheers,

    Arne

    Last modified: 03 Mar 2011 16:20 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 02 Mar 2011 22:45
    Reply # 537269 on 535055
    Deleted user
    David, I will go take a look.

    Meanwhile, let me say "thank you" for giving me the opportunity to choose between barrel camber, batten-shelf camber, broadseam camber, the vertical seam method I can't recall the name of, and now tucked camber.

    I was already driving myself (and Meps!) crazy with the choices.

    Unfortunately, my main sail as currently planned with full camber needs 67 inch wide fabric, and what we're going to buy is 64 inches wide.   So I expect to be using two vertical seams (in some form or other) on that part of the main sail.

    The top fan shaped panels will be a lot flatter, but they are also pretty tall, and will probably want similar construction.

    Barry
  • 02 Mar 2011 21:47
    Reply # 537208 on 535055

    Barry,
    I'm hoping that you've looked at the panel with tucked camber, and the sketch of sewing the tuck, that I did for Graham Cox's "Arion". The panel width is 4ft, and the cloth is Oddysey, so you can use them with a little adaption. Doing it this way, you end up with straight panel edges which are easier to sew together, and it's easier to add the batten pocket/patch; and they also set better on the straight batten than do the curved edges of a flat barrel panel.
  • 02 Mar 2011 21:38
    Reply # 537191 on 536035
    Barry & Meps / Stellrecht & Schulte wrote: Yes, I am familiar with the pipe C-Clip method of controlling a sail, and I was expecting to do it.

    I was hoping that batten pockets could be sewn on without sending a roll through the machine at all.

    If I use seams that are stronger than those really simple ones, planning ahead so that only one panel needs to go under the arm sounds like a real good idea.  Thank you Annie & David for pointing it out (and making me feel stupid for not figuring it out myself!)  I am sure to do a lot of planning ahead...or regretting my failures to!

    But how do I sew on the batten pocket?  Seam the pocket on both top and bottom?  Fold it in half and sew both layers of the pocket to the panel seam?
    Here's a thought for you:
    If you use the simple seam, one panel on top of the other, to get the initial join done easily; then use the combined batten pocket/patch that I sketched in David's Doodles, and sew it top and bottom across that seam, you are forming a bridge across the weak seam, with the preferred lap joint at the top and bottom of the pocket/patch. If there is a gap in the pocket, fit another short patch with its ends under the pocket/patch.
    Be sure to put the panel you are adding underneath the part of the sail already sewn up (ie, reverse sides together), so that the upstanding seam ends up being covered by the patches.
    Make sense? This is a halfway point between doing it the full-on sailmaker's way and doing it the easier but weaker amateur's way, with strength properties correspondingly somewhere between.
  • 02 Mar 2011 07:26
    Reply # 536035 on 535055
    Deleted user
    Yes, I am familiar with the pipe C-Clip method of controlling a sail, and I was expecting to do it.

    I was hoping that batten pockets could be sewn on without sending a roll through the machine at all.

    If I use seams that are stronger than those really simple ones, planning ahead so that only one panel needs to go under the arm sounds like a real good idea.  Thank you Annie & David for pointing it out (and making me feel stupid for not figuring it out myself!)  I am sure to do a lot of planning ahead...or regretting my failures to!

    But how do I sew on the batten pocket?  Seam the pocket on both top and bottom?  Fold it in half and sew both layers of the pocket to the panel seam?
  • 01 Mar 2011 21:20
    Reply # 535652 on 535055
    We reinforced Badger's acrylic sails with webbing on all four sides.  We put patches in the four corners, using Dacron/Terylene sailcloth - three or four layers - and covering said patches with acrylic to protect them from UV.  That was it.  The first suit did 70,000 miles and could probably have done another 10,000.  The only issue was a few chafe patches from the lazyjacks.

    As for sewing on the batten pockets: when I made Fantail's sail, I put the batten pockets on as I got to them, ie as soon as I'd sewn the seam.  I lapped the seam and gave it 2 rows of (rather wobbly) stitching.  Working on my own, I found it easier to stuff the (one panel) through the throat of the machine and push the rest of the sail forward as I stitched.  I rolled it up originally, but the relatively stiff and unyielding tube that resulted hung up and wouldn't slide.  With someone else to help feed it, a neat tube might well be easier. 
<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software