Design and Use of Drogues

  • 01 Mar 2018 21:59
    Reply # 5884378 on 833331
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David,

    before I dare draw any half-firm conclusion, I must do some towing tests of my ball fenders and my new parachute drogues. I plan to use Ingeborg, with the engine running flat out, and record the speed drop with each of the drogues and fenders deployed. Maybe my digital luggage scales will be able to record the braking force as well.

    The ball fenders, being symmetrical, will most probably not rotate and need any swivel. When making two more parachutes before the towing test (one at 0.1 and one at 1.0sqm), I will remember to make one of the sectors from the sand-coloured roll of canvas, and the other 5 from the white roll. This will let me see if they tend to rotate. If they do so, I might add a bit weight to 3 sectors (one chain link in each?) and a bit buoyancy (closed cell foam?) to the 3 others.

    I realise that I am straying badly away from my original, humble specification, which was to restrain my Ingeborg from running away during the few minutes it takes to raise her sail. Such things happens when the outdoor temps invites one to stay indoors for a while.
    The brain turns into a restless animal.

    Cheers, Arne


  • 01 Mar 2018 10:53
    Reply # 5883398 on 5883395
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    Annie wrote:

    I'm astonished at that, Arne.  My instinctive thought is that a fender would simply skip over the surface.  They are pretty strong, too. 

    Sure, Annie, if you tow a normal ‘sausage’ fender, it will make no resistance at all. I learned this once I sailed with a friend and his little son was allowed to tow a ball behind us. I was more than a little surprised to see how it dug into the water. My friend said he sometimes tied that little ball (15-20cm?) behind the tender to keep the towing line (painter?) taut when sailing downwind in some waves.

    Arne

    Interesting, Arne. On a small boat, the more items that can serve a dual purpose, the better.

    Soooo, can we take this one stage further? Can we invent the "Arne Series Drogue"? Get six round fenders to serve their normal purpose, and when the need arises, tie them all onto a long line and tow them behind us?

  • 01 Mar 2018 10:26
    Reply # 5883395 on 833331
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Annie wrote:

    I'm astonished at that, Arne.  My instinctive thought is that a fender would simply skip over the surface.  They are pretty strong, too. 

    Sure, Annie, if you tow a normal ‘sausage’ fender, it will make no resistance at all. I learned this once I sailed with a friend and his little son was allowed to tow a ball behind us. I was more than a little surprised to see how it dug into the water. My friend said he sometimes tied that little ball (15-20cm?) behind the tender to keep the towing line (painter?) taut when sailing downwind in some waves.

    Towing the anchor sounds interesting. I would fear that some of them might ‘kite’ along and misbehave rather badly, but symmetric anchors should do fine. I hope to make some towing tests of my parachute drogues ( I will also make a smaller and a bigger one, at 0.1 and 1.0 sqm), and also ball fenders.

    Over the years, I have read books about long voyages done by local youngsters. They always seem to carry a few old car tyres. These do a number of jobs. They are good as fenders, they can be used as very solid springs on a towing line, and they can be towed behind (one, two or more) to aid steering in a downwind gale. I bet this is common practice by many long distance sailors.
    Car tyres are cheap, available and capable of doing several jobs.

    Arne



    Last modified: 02 Mar 2018 09:02 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 01 Mar 2018 07:58
    Reply # 5883282 on 833331

    Hi, 


    I know absolutely nothing of heavy weather sailing but this chap has circumnavigated 3 times....and loves towing stuff...including fenders...here


    Also check out what happens to a JSD after a couple of (albeit) heavy uses...here



    Regards

    Martin

  • 01 Mar 2018 07:12
    Reply # 5883260 on 5881527
    Arne Kverneland wrote:Now, one idea leads to another: Although I am a fairweather sailor, I would like you to consider this simple form of speed brake and yaw damper for offshore downwind sailing: Tow a 20, 40, or 60cm ball-shaped fender. You will be surprised how much drag they produce. They certainly don’t just jump on top of the sea. They literally suck themselves under until only the top scalp is visible, and they produce drag. I suggest you try one when motoring to see what size is needed for your boat.

    Sometimes the simplest solutions are good enough.


    I'm astonished at that, Arne.  My instinctive thought is that a fender would simply skip over the surface.  They are pretty strong, too. 

    Another simple solution that really appeals to me, but which I've never tried (simply because I've never been on a boat that required anything dragged behind) is Blondie's brilliant idea of streaming your anchor and chain.  A good-sized anchor (especially a modern one such as a Manson Supreme) has a large surface area, and I'm sure chain must create a huge amount of drag.  And you have all the gear on board, ready to go. It would be a bit of a mission to get to the end of the cable and bring it aft, but once that is done, it should all be quite straightforward to deploy.  And it would winch back in a damn sight better than a Jordans series drogue!
  • 28 Feb 2018 14:18
    Reply # 5881527 on 833331
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    (..This posting is actually a mental spin-off from this thread about heaving to, the 28.2.2018..)

     

    Home-made parachute drogue.

    I certainly don’t dare give a lecture about offshore tactics in conditions you fellows describe.

    Even so, and much because of the chilly weather we have now (neg. 8-10°C and some wind), I have focused on creative indoor activities:

    Last week I designed and built a couple of 6-segment parachute type drogues from some left-over Odyssey III. One has a cross section of 0.42sqm (40cm side) and the other is 0.20sqm. They are meant to be used (one of them) to slow down my Ingeborg as I am to hoist her sail, right outside the harbour. This is to keep her from using up the space (or tack!) before the sail is fully up. Ingeborg is like no other boat I have had  -  she is eager as a Border Collie as soon as the first panel gets up. On former boats, I have been able to swing the rudder fully over and stop them, but that would be awkward on Ingeborg.  

    So far I have only tried my drogues by towing them along the pontoon, but at least they open  as they should, and also produce plenty of drag.  In addition, they were dead easy to construct, once the right design for one sector was found. Maybe they could be useful for offshore work as well? The challenge is to make them of the right size and strength.

    Now, one idea leads to another: Although I am a fairweather sailor, I would like you to consider this simple form of speed brake and yaw damper for offshore downwind sailing: Tow a 20, 40, or 60cm ball-shaped fender. You will be surprised how much drag they produce. They certainly don’t just jump on top of the sea. They literally suck themselves under until only the top scalp is visible, and they produce drag. I suggest you try one when motoring to see what size is needed for your boat.

    Sometimes the simplest solutions are good enough.

    Arne

     


    Last modified: 18 Oct 2023 09:15 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 25 Feb 2012 11:40
    Reply # 835433 on 833331

    " ... it's a shame he's never actually tried it in anger. " 

    I don't t hink it's a shame; I am actually very pleased ... jds

  • 25 Feb 2012 09:19
    Reply # 835409 on 833331

    Roger Taylor of Ming Ming fame has an article on his website on the use of his drogue :-

    http://www.thesimplesailor.com/articles.html

    Persuaded me to buy one! Though not as yet used it.

  • 25 Feb 2012 04:54
    Reply # 835308 on 833331
    Can I just add that I thought I'd better make a drogue and a parachute before I left the UK, and I've never deployed either in anger, in the course of sailing the length and breadth of the Atlantic and the Pacific. Of course, one day, I might be glad that I've got them aboard, but it hasn't happened in 6 years and 40,000 miles. Meanwhile, they're taking up space.
  • 25 Feb 2012 01:19
    Reply # 835203 on 833331
    While it's good to hear Jonathon's rave review, it's a shame he's never actually tried it in anger.  Different ships, different long splices: we never had to tow anything behind Badger.  Hasler, I believe, suggested towing a Bruce anchor, chain and rope.  Lots of long distance boats have a stern line permanently available - it would not be beyond the with of (wo)man to bend on spare anchor and chain before setting off on an ocean crossing, and thus use one piece of equipment for two jobs.  The rope cable could be bridled in advance, and all prepared for deployment as with any other drogue.

    it would save a bit of brass, too.
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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