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Yard hauling parrel problem

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  • 23 Jul 2018 14:11
    Quote
    Reply # 6393534 on 6346481
    Deleted user

    Thanks Annie, that was an interesting read.

    My rig seems to have more power on the starboard tack, but I already know that I didn't build it with both sides equal so that's more likely the problem.

    I wonder if rather than simple turbulence the extra distance air must travel to go around the mast doesn't partially defeat the whole purpose of a foil, that air travel faster on the side that develops lift, the lee side on a sail, because it has further to go.

    So when the mast is on the lee side of the sail the wind has to go the extra distance to get around the mast and the camber, the extra air speed necessary offsets the turbulence from the mast.

    With the mast on the windward side of the sail the air goes around just the camber on the lee side but has to go a bit faster to get around the mast on the windward, effectively neutralizing part of the advantage gained by putting camber in the sail.


    Hmm, well, I'll have something to think about next time I go out :)


    Bill
  • 23 Jul 2018 08:41
    Quote
    Reply # 6393146 on 6392003
    Anonymous member
    Bill F wrote:

    bad tack is still a bit more weatherly though.

    That's because what you think of as the bad tack is the better tack.  See Arne's article on The Myth of the Bad Tack.
  • 22 Jul 2018 03:45
    Quote
    Reply # 6392003 on 6346481
    Deleted user

    well, loooong sail today, think I've got it figured out, in light air there's not enough wind pressure to pop the camber out on the port side of the sail, once it does get enough air it kicks but all over the the other tack, bad tack is still a bit more weatherly though.


    Bill F
  • 15 Jul 2018 21:47
    Quote
    Reply # 6382181 on 6381973
    Anonymous member
    Anonymous wrote:

    Should the tail of the yard-hauling parrel come down the mast-side of the sail, or the other side - or does it matter? 


    In the "chimney". Always - to avoid chafe.
  • 15 Jul 2018 15:46
    Quote
    Reply # 6382008 on 6346481
    Deleted user

    well, the side of the mast opposite the sail is the only part of the mast that never gets pinched by battens or the yard I so ran the halyard and yard hauling parrel down that side.


    If you ran it down the opposite side of the sail from the mast it would interfere with the sails  camber on the starboard tack, assuming the sails on the port side of the mast.


    Bill

    Last modified: 15 Jul 2018 15:48 | Deleted user
  • 15 Jul 2018 14:29
    Quote
    Reply # 6381973 on 6346481
    Anonymous member

    Should the tail of the yard-hauling parrel come down the mast-side of the sail, or the other side - or does it matter? 
  • 15 Jul 2018 04:35
    Quote
    Reply # 6381722 on 6346481
    Deleted user
    it's good to know I'm not the only one with this problem, not that I'd ever wish it on anybody it's just nice to know it's not a new screw up I've discovered :)

    mm, I suppose it could just be a light wind problem, I first noticed it in light winds and haven't been out since.

    I've put on several more telltales, a secondary attachment point a bit further forward  for the yard hauling parrel, and I'm working on a weathervane so I can get a better idea of apparent wind. Hopefully I can figure out what's going on.

    Now if the wind ever blows again I can try out everything, on the upside  I'm getting a fair amount done on my proa :)


    Bill
  • 14 Jul 2018 01:09
    Quote
    Reply # 6380684 on 6380610
    Deleted user
    Bill F wrote:

    Hi All

    Well, I've got the YHP working nicely now, thanks again for your helpful posts, but now I've got another problem that I just can't figure out.

    For some reason my rig isn't nearly as weatherly on the "Good" tack, I can point within about 50 degrees when the sail in on the windward side of the mast and I'm quite happy with that, but when the sail is on the lee of the mast I'm lucky to get within 65 degrees of the wind. The boat heels and it feels like it should really be going but nothing happens, like I'm towing an anchor or something. 

    I checked the daggerboard, skeg, and runners and they're all square to the centerline and symmetrical.

    the batton parrels are all fairly snug and easing/ tightening the luff hauling parels doesn't seem to help, or hurt for that matter.

    I can't think of anything to change, should I maybe play around with the batten parrels and see if that changes anything?


    Bill

    Ah, this is the good tack/bad tack syndrome. Something which has been discussed at length in the JRA Forums. I experience the same thing on 'Footprints'. It was a lot worse with the original flat junk sail when it really took at least 15 knots of wind to get the boat sailing well on both tacks.

    I still experience this with the new camber panel sail but to a much lesser extent. There is a certain range of wind conditions when the boat just does not want to go to windward when on the starboard tack. In light winds with smooth to slight seas she sails well on both tacks. Then in the sort of 8 to 12 knot wind range and with a bit of chop the boat seems dead while on the starboard tack. Then once the wind picks up and I have a little more sail up than what I possible should have the boat sails equally well on both tacks. I wonder if this problem is maybe worse with a low aspect sail, and I am sure my very large diameter mast is a contributor to the problem. I have found that if I ease the sheet a little while on the starboard tack the boat seems to get a lot more drive.

    You will no doubt get a lot of other comments on this.
  • 13 Jul 2018 22:57
    Quote
    Reply # 6380610 on 6346481
    Deleted user

    Hi All

    Well, I've got the YHP working nicely now, thanks again for your helpful posts, but now I've got another problem that I just can't figure out.

    For some reason my rig isn't nearly as weatherly on the "Good" tack, I can point within about 50 degrees when the sail in on the windward side of the mast and I'm quite happy with that, but when the sail is on the lee of the mast I'm lucky to get within 65 degrees of the wind. The boat heels and it feels like it should really be going but nothing happens, like I'm towing an anchor or something. 

    I checked the daggerboard, skeg, and runners and they're all square to the centerline and symmetrical.

    the batton parrels are all fairly snug and easing/ tightening the luff hauling parels doesn't seem to help, or hurt for that matter.

    I can't think of anything to change, should I maybe play around with the batten parrels and see if that changes anything?


    Bill
  • 02 Jul 2018 16:09
    Quote
    Reply # 6355097 on 6346481
    Deleted user

    Thanks David, 

    I've got a little block I can put on for now, I just noticed the rope is running through the loop the wrong way as well.


    Looks like they sell those blocks at walmart so I'll go have a look


    I've just about got all the ropes the right length now and I'll be replacing them with new ones, think I'll go by with braided polyester for everything but the lazy jacks where I'll use poly to reduce chafe.


    Bill
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