LEXIA & AZAB

  • 12 May 2011 13:26
    Reply # 589661 on 578295

    Very much enjoyed this subject and all the wonderful replies from sailors with real experience.  Isn't the JRA great!

    Small clarifiction for Jonathan,  does the AIS transmit as well as recieve?  Given a choice, which would come first the Sea-me or the AIS?

    many thanks

    Mark Thomasson 

  • 12 May 2011 12:34
    Reply # 589631 on 589589
    Paul Thompson wrote: Hi Jonathan,

    I wish you well and hope you will have a good and successful voyage by your measure, not necessarily that of others. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.

    Re the series drogue, it's a good choice. I have carried one for the last 12 odd years and used it twice in anger. On both occasions it worked as advertised. I'd never go to sea without one now.

    If you cleat your bridle with a round turn at the stern and then lead it on to the midships cleat you will distribute (some) the load between the two of them.

    One thing, make very, very sure about your chafe protection. It is absolutely vital that you make sure the bridle is protected from chafe where it comes aboard. The bridle is under tremendous load at times and  chafe protection is critical. Many a yacht has lost their series drogue because of this issue. You cannot be too aware or too concerned about it.

    Go well and as Annie would say, may your battens never break.


    Paul, thank you for that.  All good stuff, particularly the comments on chafe protection.

     

    I am wondering if I actually need a bridle to the quarters.  I have a Hydrovane mounted centrally on the transom.  It has large through bolts into substantial marine ply backing plates glued to the inside of the transom.  I think that I could secure the drogue to the main vertical tube of the Hydrovane and reduce the chafe risk.  I am not sure about the geometry and dynamics of securing to the centre line of the transom rather than the quarters, but I think that it is probably ok.  The bridle is really a way of achieving a centre line pull, I presume.  The hull including the transom is pretty strong.  The hull was laid up in C Glass over a male frame to form the male plug which was then used to make the femal mould.  It is very thick.  I have been told that it is stronger than the moulded  hulls.  It was then used as the hull for the boat.  I don't think that it would be possible to pull the Hydrovane out of the transom or the transom off the hull, and I suspect that it would be stronger than either of the stern cleats, although a bridle does spread the load between the two sides ie half each. 

     

    If I did decide to use the two legs of a bridle, I could specify longer pieces of rope to allow them to be tailed back to the midships cleats.  They would then run out through the closed fairleads on the quarters.  This would keep them in the right place but this wriggle through the fairleads would be a main point of chafe.  I presume that I would minimise this if I secured some rubber or plastic tube in place.  However, you then can't see what chafe is occuring inside the tube ... Who said that things should be easy? 

     

    Anyway, I think that is a plan.  However, I shall also consult Mr Oceanbrake.

     

    Yours aye

     

    Jonathan

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • 12 May 2011 09:55
    Reply # 589589 on 578295
    Hi Jonathan,

    I wish you well and hope you will have a good and successful voyage by your measure, not necessarily that of others. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.

    Re the series drogue, it's a good choice. I have carried one for the last 12 odd years and used it twice in anger. On both occasions it worked as advertised. I'd never go to sea without one now.

    If you cleat your bridle with a round turn at the stern and then lead it on to the midships cleat you will distribute (some) the load between the two of them.

    One thing, make very, very sure about your chafe protection. It is absolutely vital that you make sure the bridle is protected from chafe where it comes aboard. The bridle is under tremendous load at times and  chafe protection is critical. Many a yacht has lost their series drogue because of this issue. You cannot be too aware or too concerned about it.

    Go well and as Annie would say, may your battens never break.
  • 11 May 2011 21:29
    Reply # 589146 on 588274
    Brian Kerslake wrote: Hi Jonathan

    The Freedom 39 Pilothouse Schooner we're currently converting to junk came with an Aquair wind or tow generator - see the Yachting section of their website:

    I've only tried it so far in wind mode, and in a force 4-5, tied up to a pontoon in Portland Marina this winter, the vane unit flew off the generator and softly though with a bump 'gyro'd' onto the pontoon behind - lucky no-one was out for a walk or they'd have been beheaded. I'm not telling this to put a downer on the Aerogen which looks a great (tho in our case, ancient) piece of kit - twas the previous owner who'd not tightened the bolts fully, and the current owner who hadn't bothered to check! One bonus is that it can be hoisted on a halyard when, rigged with a couple of guy lines - it chunters away quite happily way above your head. No good for when you're sailing though, but that's when you use the towing kit. I imagine recovery will be interesting.

    They also have a generator that mounts under the boat - looks good but not cheap.

    Last autumn I met a guy in Brighton Marina with a Freedom 35 who had one of these:
    It looks snazzy, mounts on the stern and - I think after changing the blades - you simply rotate it from the wind position until it's in the water. He'd sailed from I think the east coast to la Rochelle and back and hadn't plugged into the mains at all for three months (he said). And he had lots of electronics on board.
     
    So you're been and are off again into the wild blue Atlantic?  What are you, mad?

    Brian
    'Paradox'
    Portland Marina

    Brian

     

    Thank you for taking the time and trouble to write.

     

    I shall start at the end.  Am I mad?  Well, maybe, but we sailors must all be suffering from some sort of madness, or at least obsession. 

     

    Lexia is undoubtedly a cruising boat and I am definitely a cruising sailor, not a racer.  I wrote in a newsletter about how and why I entered the OSTAR 2009 and succeeded in staggering across the start line to retire early.  (Along with many other early retirees, I would add in my plea in mitigation.)  I have a painting of the race boats assembled in Queen Anne's Battery marina in Plymouth with Lexia looking like a Morris Minor Traveller accidentally finding itself on the start grid of a Formula One race. 

     

    For good or ill I have entered the AZAB 2011.  I could have saved myself a lot of money and effort by simply setting off to cruise to the Azores.  However, I probably wouldn't have done so.  The disadvantages of being involved in a formal race are the cost of the entry which covers the race infrastructure and also the need to get the boat up to the requirements of ISAF Special Regulations.  As these cover much bigger and fully crewed boats racing across oceans then inevitably some requirements seem to be excessive.  However, the majority are sensible requirements and have made me make some significant improvements to the boat and equipment which I would not otherwise  have tackled.  Once one has signed up, there is merit in having the driving force of an inevitable start date ie no saying next month or next year; the race starts from Falmouth on Saturday 4 June.  There will be some comfort blanket in being part of an organised event, particularly one where the boats will have trackers fitted.  I know that that is not quite in the tradition and spirit of Slocum or now of the Jester Challenge.  However, some of us are lesser mortals. 

     

    Lexia is not the oldest or the smallest boat in the race and I am not the oldest skipper, although nearly so on all of those counts.  However, she will definitely be the slowest.  Her IRC rating has been reduced this year; apparently she is getting slower with age, just like me.  Indeed the race organisers software couldn't accept a rating under 0.8 and has had to be modified to accept Lexia at 0.79.  So it would be undiplomatic to the handicappers to come any higher than last.  If this was the London Marathon, I would be the chap in the gorilla suit trotting along at the back.  However, if you want to see the position of all the competitors have a look at www.azab2011.co.uk  from 4 June. 

     

    As regards electricity generation.  Many people have now looked at the stern of Lexia and agreed that, with the need to deconfict from the wind vane and the dangers of being swiped by the sheets and sheetlets of the main sail, mounting a substantial horizontal axis wind vane would be difficult and expensive at best, and really probably impractical.  We have seriously looked at mounting something at the top of the foremast.   However, all the wires in  both the mast are immovable, possibly having been taped together and/or stuck in place eg with foam, so that is a non starter without removing a mast, which is not going to happen.  As Brian writes, the Duogen is interesting but it costs £2k and would still interfere with the wind vane.  An Aqua4Gen towed generator would be very effective at the cost of some boat speed, but AquaGen have ceased manufacture.  Yacht Parts at Plymouth (ever helpful ) have one on the shelf, but it is 24 volt, which explains why it is still on the shelf. I haven't been able to find a towed generator secondhand, particularly as I am not au fait with Ebay. 

     

    I am still looking at the possibilities of a set of semi rigid PV panels on the deck and a cheap (£160) and cheerful (I hope) vertical axis wind vane from Maplin, the high street electronic chain.  It is more camping than marine.  I have also looked at a small portable generator but the practicalities of this are not really good, and to get a good one the cost is not inconsiderable.  However, time and effort and money are running out so these are no more than possibilities. 

     

    I did take advice from Sterling, who were very helpful.  As advised by Sterling, I have bought a new alternator.  The old alternator was 30 Amps.  The new Prestolite alternator is rated at 70 amps.  The cost at £130 seems reasonable to me.  Also it has a smaller pulley which will make it rotate faster.  (Shorter fan belt and two spares also purchased.)  I have also order a spare regulator for the new alternator.  However, I do have the old alternator and its spare belts and regulators in reserve.  Under instruction from Sterling, I have done a discharge test on the service battery bank and tested the voltage at the alternator and the battery bank (very little loss).  Based on those results, Sterling have advised me not to buy their clever 12 v DC to DC charger or their Advanced Alternator Regulator.  The first would be unsuitable and the second would not produce any significant effect for the cost involved.  I was particularly impressed with the patience and helpfulness of Sterling who did advise me not to buy their products.  I would feel confident of their advice in future. 

     

    I have spent a long time trying to get good information on the electrical consumption of all the electric and electronic items.  We, that is the boy wonder electician and I, calculated the daily consumption of the minimum highly desirable equipment, ie no frills and no internal lights, at 100 AmpHours.  We calculated that all the red neon lights in the switches on the switch panel which were using 25 AmpHours per day.  We, that is the boy wonder, then removed them all.  I will just have to be careful about what is or is not switched on.  So I am looking at consuming a very minimum of 75 AmpHours per day.

     

    The service battery bank is 3 x 85 AmpHours ie 255 Amp Hours.  When I set off, the batteries will have been on a long term mains charger and should be 100%.  However, later I will probably only be able to charge to say 80% in a reasonable time.  I can reasonably discharge to 50% I believe.  I calculate this as a useable amount of electicity as being 75 AmpHours. 

    The correlation of the two figures above is coincidental! 

     

    However, with a 70 Amp alternator, if the charging effeciency were to be 100% then I would need to run the engine for just over one hour per day, although I am not quite sure of what revs to use.  I suspect that, as is generally the way with these things, the efficiency will be well less than 100%.  Someone may be able to advise this mechanical engineer ...  However, an hour or even two hours a day is do-able.    In fact it is what cruisers used to do before wind generators and PV panels were available.  However, the electronic and electical loads were then lower.  Also cruisers would use the engine running time to motor as well, which I will not be allowed to do.  The engine is a 1978 Volvo MD 11C but it works well, even if it is noisy below decks.  (So imagine me at night.   I wear a LED head torch, a pair of ear defenders and a kitchen time round my neck set at 15 minutes for the next look round the horizon.  Not quite the posh yachtie image ... !)  The engine fuel tank holds 35 gallons ie say 70 hours running or probably much more on alternator load only. An engine that is run every day is more likely to start when required than one that is never normally run - that's good.  But using dieso for charging means that the dieso cannot be used for motoring, particularly in an emergency - that's bad. 

     

    The disadvantage of having only the main engine for electricity generation is that there is no real second string to the bow. 

     

    I do have a small flexible 27 Watt PV panel.  It would be sensible to deploy this whenever conditions allow.  Also, in the event of a failure of the main engine, this should generate enough by day to power the Lopo LED tricolour light by night.  However, everthing else electical would have to be off.  (I do have a number of dry cell powered GPS sets.) 

     

    So, I think that is it on the electical front.  I am probably going with the boat as is currently. 

     

    I have been looking hard at the question of storm survival and Jordan Series Drogues in particular.  There is lots of information on the web but it is worth looking at Roger Taylor and Corribee Ming Ming and The Simple Sailor article of January 2010.  My current equipment has comprised an ex Admiralty sea anchor, two ex climbing ropes and a head in the sand attitude.  From what I have read, I am pretty convinced on the arguments in favour of a series drogue deployed from the stern.  I have looked at and spoken to Oceanbrake of Weymouth.  I probably don't have time to make up a series drogue myself and I am advised that the cost saving would not anyway be considerable.  So, my final big spend may be £374 for a drogue, £55 for the pair of ropes to form a bridle from the transom and, just possibly, £70 for a bag for stowage and deployment.  Don Jordan advocated mounting chain plates on the quarters through the hull as attachments.  I can see the merits of this but I have checked the stern cleats and mid cleats on the boat and they are all well backed and bolted and I am inclined think (hope?) that they would be sufficiently strong.  Yet another £500 !  The old adage about standing under a cold shower and tearing up ten pound notes is out of date.  Just add two noughts. 

     

    Anyway Brian, thanks for your interest and indeed that of many others.  I remain open to advice through this forum right up to start day, and indeed after that via lexia@mailasail.com   - but only if I can generate enough electricity to power my old laptop and the Iridium phone.  We shall see ...

     

    Jonathan

  • 10 May 2011 21:41
    Reply # 588274 on 578295
    Hi Jonathan

    The Freedom 39 Pilothouse Schooner we're currently converting to junk came with an Aquair wind or tow generator - see the Yachting section of their website:

    I've only tried it so far in wind mode, and in a force 4-5, tied up to a pontoon in Portland Marina this winter, the vane unit flew off the generator and softly though with a bump 'gyro'd' onto the pontoon behind - lucky no-one was out for a walk or they'd have been beheaded. I'm not telling this to put a downer on the Aerogen which looks a great (tho in our case, ancient) piece of kit - twas the previous owner who'd not tightened the bolts fully, and the current owner who hadn't bothered to check! One bonus is that it can be hoisted on a halyard when, rigged with a couple of guy lines - it chunters away quite happily way above your head. No good for when you're sailing though, but that's when you use the towing kit. I imagine recovery will be interesting.

    They also have a generator that mounts under the boat - looks good but not cheap.

    Last autumn I met a guy in Brighton Marina with a Freedom 35 who had one of these:
    It looks snazzy, mounts on the stern and - I think after changing the blades - you simply rotate it from the wind position until it's in the water. He'd sailed from I think the east coast to la Rochelle and back and hadn't plugged into the mains at all for three months (he said). And he had lots of electronics on board.
     
    So you're been and are off again into the wild blue Atlantic?  What are you, mad?

    Brian
    'Paradox'
    Portland Marina
  • 05 May 2011 10:21
    Reply # 584575 on 583900
      We found http://www.aasolar.co.nz/AA%20Solar%20Prices.html the cheapest source for New Zealand, unfortunately after we had already bought ours for considerably more :-( . Anyway, it might be interesting for others.

    Cheers

    Rob

    Yes - compare with Burnsco!  Cheap as chips.  Am looking for a place to put one, but at least I can now consider buying one.
  • 05 May 2011 10:15
    Reply # 584574 on 578295
    Kurt wins 10/10 for sanity and courtesy.  How wonderful to have such analytical and rational brains in the JRA
  • 04 May 2011 20:25
    Reply # 584222 on 581529
    Barry & Meps / Stellrecht & Schulte wrote:
    I've got similar ones.  I found the Fautasi fixtures unpleasant to use where I originally intended, as they have 18 BRIGHT individual LEDs, and anyplace in the main cabin they would catch (and bother) my eye from some place or other.  I ended up putting them above my V-berth which works pretty well.
    Thanks for the comment re the Fautasi fixtures. Yes, I can see that that could be a problem. I have not installed mine yet but it seems that some sort of diffuser would solve the problem. Will look into it.
  • 04 May 2011 20:21
    Reply # 584220 on 583900
    Robert Prince wrote:Hi Paul

    You've probably already got your solar panels.  We found http://www.aasolar.co.nz/AA%20Solar%20Prices.html the cheapest source for New Zealand, unfortunately after we had already bought ours for considerably more :-( . Anyway, it might be interesting for others.

    Cheers

    Rob

    Thanks Rob, the prices are indeed good for New Zealand. I still have my 20 year old Siemens panels, which still work but I suspect that there output may be down now. I'll be checking them out it due course and will then make a decision about replacing or not.
  • 04 May 2011 10:17
    Reply # 583900 on 579093
    Paul Thompson wrote:On board La Chica, I originally had a Breeze but removed it because of the noise problem. We then continued with six 55watt solar panels cruising both in the tropics and in the middle latitudes for the last twenty odd years (I lived aboard except for the last six years which I have been rebuilding my boat. Back in the water this year). The solar panels provided for all of our needs which included refrigeration and all the normal electronics.


    Hi Paul

    You've probably already got your solar panels.  We found http://www.aasolar.co.nz/AA%20Solar%20Prices.html the cheapest source for New Zealand, unfortunately after we had already bought ours for considerably more :-( . Anyway, it might be interesting for others.

    Cheers

    Rob

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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