Stays (warning: thinking outside of the box)

  • 10 May 2018 23:52
    Reply # 6148289 on 6143274
    Deleted user

    You mean as per a Colvin Gazelle?

    Initially I was wondering about a forward facing spreader but a curve would do away with the need of extra height to make it work, and it made me smile. Great place to mount a spotlight too. 

    The inspiration came from a very old design, and what looks like a havs- or storfidra someone was playing around with

    Who knows, perhaps they are a member here?

    Handsome little boats I envy the owner for having.

  • 08 May 2018 23:03
    Reply # 6144390 on 6143274

    A single stay like this will do nothing to add to mast security, in my opinion.  it will probably have the opposite effect by putting a compression load on the mast.  A friend had a 30ft Freedom, with a roachy bermudian mainsail and a forestay that went about 2/3rds of the way up the mast (fractional rig), plus two running backstays (only the windward one was used), on an otherwise unstayed mast.  The jib was used primarily for tacking to windward in light airs.  In stronger winds, and when running, the jib was furled and the backstays slacked off.  For a junk rig, I believe you should either go for the unstayed rig or a fully stayed Colvin style rig.

  • 08 May 2018 21:18
    Reply # 6144191 on 6143952
    Deleted user
    David Thatcher wrote:

    Any well designed junk mast should be self supporting without the need for standing rigging.

    I remember of one owner here who bent the top of their mast (I can't remember how, may be they hit a bridge?), and a couple have mentioned disconcerting movement. 

    I'm primarily talking about in extreme circumstances, being rolled or pitched by waves.


    Seagulls would love it though. Worse risk would be an increase in deck poop on the poop deck.

    Last modified: 08 May 2018 21:19 | Deleted user
  • 08 May 2018 20:42
    Reply # 6143952 on 6143274

    If you are going to put on a fore-stay that suggests the mast has some weakness so therefore you would probably need shrouds as well. Any well designed junk mast should be self supporting without the need for standing rigging. Also keep in mind that the strongest area of the mast is nearer to deck level so therefore in any wind or sea conditions which could be a threat to the mast the sail should be reefed down which will bring all the mast loads down lower on the spar where the strength of the spar is the greatest. There is probably all sorts of engineering talk to explain this but that is my layman's interpretation.

    Also keep in mind that the lack of standing rigging is one of the things which contributes to the beautiful simplicity of the junk rig. The same applies to the lack of a headsail. 

    Last modified: 08 May 2018 20:46 | Anonymous member
  • 08 May 2018 16:37
    Message # 6143274
    Deleted user

    Re: stays, in particular forestays.

    I seen some traditional lug sail boats, not junks per se, that have used a/or forestays, perhaps attach to a bowsprit to allow them sufficient clearance. 

    A lot of yacht design, and most of our aesthetic appreciation of it, is based on the limits ancient materials so, thinking outside of box for a moment, would there be any advantage to allowing for forestays?

    I appreciate unstayed masts have done 10,000s of miles and 99.9% of the time are fine. But I'm thinking of the other .1% extremes where boats have lost or damaged their mast, eg pitchpoling or being rolled by a wave. Pitchpoling the bend is facing the right direction, would forestays only make enough difference, would they control swaying?ast

    See attachment (is it possible to upload images inline).

    I appreciate this looks and is bordering on crazy. It's certainly looks funky. The first short coming I can see is that given it is at the bow, the distance between two stays would little. And it would only be stayed to the fore. But I had to wonder. Such a shape is available off the shelf.

    The idea actually arose from old skerry-type racers that often tension a wooden mast so its bends backwards to get close to that perfect "spitfire wing" profile. I thought about using a spreader first, you could use two in a v-shape, then I saw this column on the ALC website.

    Rough drawing ...


       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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