Folkboat Junk rig Project for sale

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  • 01 Jun 2018 07:55
    Message # 6279149

    Nice little Folkboat for sale will convert nicely to Junk Rig. Includes brand new Solid Douglas for Junk rig Mast to fit folk boat. Boat has been stripped right down and includes all fittings associated with western rig (should you want any of it!) advert:

    Folkboat for sale £800 (including Mast)


    German built  in 70’s. Mahogany on oak construction (edge nailed). Boat suffered some damage when she came off a mooring some years ago. All structural repairs have been made (some new frames and bit of planking). New rudder has been fabricated just needs finished. Interior has been stripped out and re painted. decks have been covered in glass and epoxy, but has been out side for some years and may need touching up.

    The boat is complete:

    Sails (x3) rigging, mast, rudder, bilge bump, charcoal stove, all fittings including winches. NO Engine although prop and shaft are with it (fit outboard instead)


    In Ullapool, northwest Scotland. Can be lifted onto any suitable trailer

    Selling for a friend. Yard fees (storage) will apply if boat if left in yard after sale. (£12 per meter per month)

    I will add photos of Junk Mast...

  • 01 Jun 2018 09:20
    Reply # 6279194 on 6279149

    What a lovely project.  Those German boats had quite a lot more room inside, if my memory serves.  Boats are unbelievably cheap in places that aren't called New Zealand!

  • 01 Jun 2018 17:11
    Reply # 6279992 on 6279149
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I am afraid I have to disagree with you on this, Annie.

    First of all, if a hull is painted inside and out, like here, I would have my doubts about the conditions of it. As I understand it, it is strip-planked.

    The extra room inside comes at a price: The vessel doesn’t look good, and the helmsman is perfectly blind forward, unless he or she is standing at the tiller.

    An almost empty hulk like this will take an enormous amount of work to become ready and good-looking. If the design had been a joy to the eye in the first place, or if it once were owned by Prince Philip, it may be worth the effort. In this case, I would rather remove everything useful from it, and then add a lit match to it.

    The thing is that anyone who lives in Germany have access to low-priced boats in sail-away-condition, and if they reckon southern Scandinavia to be within reach, they will be spoilt for choice. Some of these old goodies on the market have lost their mast, and re-rigging them has been found to be terribly expensive. These boats can be had for a song, and then be fitted with a JR.

    Much better.

    Arne

     


    Last modified: 01 Jun 2018 19:51 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 01 Jun 2018 23:07
    Reply # 6280956 on 6279149

    Thanks Annie, yes it’s a lovely project for someone that’s why I chose to put it up here. 

    Thanks Arne for your intelligent reply, Nice one. I think this is why I ovoid fourums

    Dan

  • 01 Jun 2018 23:46
    Reply # 6280986 on 6279149
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Daniel

    Yes, my comment above was rather harsh, I admit that.
    However, I stand by it  -   not because I am proud or stubborn, but because I have some experience in this. I have seen friends who fell in love with wrecks. They put lots of precious time and money in their babies, and after many  hours of work, the ‘craft’ still were wrecks, only with expensive bits added to them. Their work time to sailing time ratio was around 1000 to 1.

    It seems that some people just can’t walk past a wreck without saying “I must save you”. The only time I would recommend a wreck to a friend, would be to prevent him or her from going to sea.

    That’s why  -  sometimes one must drop the diplomatic filters.

     

    Arne


  • 02 Jun 2018 02:54
    Reply # 6281505 on 6279149

    I think Arne is quite right to warn that these restoration projects can prove to be rather more expensive (in time and money) than anticipated, and also right to point out that such effort is probably worthwhile only for a boat which is “special” in some way. It can easily become “throwing good money after bad.” The same applies to restoring old cars and restoring old aircraft.

    It is not always a cheap way to get onto the water, as I know – and people need to take advice, if necessary, and realise what they might be getting into. Arne’s warning carries some truth.

    I won’t drop “the diplomatic filter” just yet, because my  respect for Arne is genuine - but in the suggestion he made I think Arne, with the best of intentions, went just a little too far.

    I would have thought a folkboat hull to be special. And here in New Zealand it is not difficult to find examples of beautiful old boats, classics, which have been lovingly restored, successfully, and made fully operational once more. Examples come readily to mind. Not all who would restore a boat are foolish, ill-informed or incompetent like the ones Arne refers to. Sometimes top hamper is removed too, returning the beautiful looks of a vessel to what the designer originally intended. Not everybody likes to do this sort of thing, some people would just prefer to spend their time sailing, and that is a good thing – but it is also a good thing that there are people who find joy in restoring something which is old and characterful, rather than just put a match to it. It is just another kind of “messing about” which also has value.

    Then again, another possible route, which is not a “restoration”, would be to get the hull and decks watertight and shipshape, then just add the very minimum of accommodation and fit out, sell most of the chandlery, the mast and rigging, use the junk mast of course, and make a sail the easiest way possible, using Arne’s successful and well-documented method – and go sailing, maybe just weekend sailing.

    In any case, of course, it is first necessary to ascertain the condition of the hull as it is at present. I am not sure that a hull having been painted inside necessarily means much, let alone what Arne suggests (I sure hope not!) and if I had to, I think I would rather make a sight-unseen judgement on some other basis, such as the credentials of the person advertising it, which, by the way, I had a look at Dan’s blog (http://junkdorybuild.blogspot.com/) probably already known to most junkies but it was new to me and I was mightily impressed. I would expect that Dan (who is selling on behalf) is qualified and will have reason enough to provide the necessary sound guidance.

    I salute Arne, with full respect and with gratitude for his wonderful and outstanding contributions – but in this recent post I venture to suggest that he has been just a little too harsh.

    PS there have been some remarkably interesting propositions in New Zealand recently too. For example: https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1625172701&archive=1


    Last modified: 02 Jun 2018 02:55 | Anonymous member
  • 02 Jun 2018 08:10
    Reply # 6281635 on 6279149

    Junk Rig mast for sale, suitable for converting 26” boat to Junk Rig. Brand new solid Douglass for and well seasoned. Ordered by a dreamer who never picked it up. £400.

  • 02 Jun 2018 08:46
    Reply # 6281642 on 6279149

    I, too, think that Arne is being a little too harsh. No. Make that much too harsh. Any boat that has passed through the hands of Dan and Tim Loftus is not going to be such a wreck as to be fit for burning, though clearly this is a restoration project. Of course a thorough examination and survey are needed, but then I see a blank canvas, just like buying a GRP hull and deck to fit out, where one doesn't have to accept  accommodation that's designed around a bermudan rig, with too many berths crammed in, but can do a sensible layout for cruising alone or with one other. Moreover, the dynamic duo of Dan and Tim are the very people you'd choose to do the woodwork for you, if you weren't in a position to do it yourself. 

    The raised doghouse may not suit Arne, but does make sense in a Folkboat that's for cruising, not racing. My old boss, Mike Gibb, had such a Folkboat, Timoneer, which I was allowed to borrow, and the extra volume of the raised doghouse made a significant contribution to comfort aboard, with two adults and two small children, cruising for a couple of weeks.

    Last modified: 02 Jun 2018 09:07 | Anonymous member
  • 02 Jun 2018 09:07
    Reply # 6281646 on 6279149
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I admit that my ‘lit match’ suggestion may look bad in print. Graeme’s answer to it, below, surely qualifies him for the higher diplomacy (no irony).

    The problem is that we tend to give dead things a heart and soul. Old boats, left high and dry in the corner of a boatyard or backyard, tend to make us regard them as we regard leftover  stray dogs and cats  -  almost as orphans. We feel sorry for them and want to give them our TLC. There is little reason for that. With respect to old boats; since they are dead things, our brains should win over our hearts, and we should pick our restauration or conversion candidate wisely.

    In Germany, Denmark and southern Sweden there are so many great candidates, which will save one ¾ of the work, compared to this one, and which in the end will reward the owner a lot more.

    Sense and sensibility   -  a never-ending conflict...

    Arne

    PS: Let's see if someone can prove me wrong on this boat, by turning it into a sound and operational little cruiser within 2-3000 man-hours of work, and within 7-8000 US$ of outlays..


    Last modified: 02 Jun 2018 14:39 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 04 Jun 2018 14:34
    Reply # 6284402 on 6279149

    Being in the middle of a JR renovation project, I'd agree with Arne.

    My boat is a 1965 Kingfisher 20, with no structural problems. and that is taking several years of evenings/weekends and way more money that the boat is likely to sell for. A wooden folkboat currently in the Western Isles is likely to be in far worse condition, take more time, and at the end will still be worth a pittance.

    Boat renovation is either meant to soak up excess time & money (otherwise often seen in football fans or leisure fishermen) or for love. So if someone loves that boat, or loves the design, good luck to them!

    But I can't really imagine that this particular example will go anywhere, alas.

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