Masts for a 60ft Junk Project wanted

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  • 20 May 2018 07:26
    Reply # 6244440 on 5714091

    Thanks Annie


    I know you are busy with SibLim.


    Some pictures or a diagram would be very useful but, no rush, whenever you have a minute?


    I was reading Brazil & Beyond and realised how many miles Badger had done with your home made masts. Can you recall the strongest winds they had stood up to? 


    Trev 

  • 20 May 2018 09:19
    Reply # 6244565 on 6244440
    TREVOR PANRUCKER wrote:

    Thanks Annie


    I know you are busy with SibLim.


    Some pictures or a diagram would be very useful but, no rush, whenever you have a minute?


    I was reading Brazil & Beyond and realised how many miles Badger had done with your home made masts. Can you recall the strongest winds they had stood up to? 


    Trev 

    If I didn't scan them now, I'd only forget about it.  We built the masts to PJR specifications.  They saw plenty of wind - and sea states - over the years we sailed Badger.  Probably the most extreme was when running into Elsehul in South Georgia with one reef in each sail.  We were hit by a gust from dead astern that was definitely a full F9.  There channel was too narrow for us to head up at all, so we could only carry on.  It was pretty frightening, but the masts barely moved.
  • 20 May 2018 10:01
    Reply # 6244644 on 5714091
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    There is also the method of making the masts from tree trunks. If one has access to trees, and have enough space for storing and working on them, one gets away with much less carpentry skills and tooling. I also trust these masts more that those depending on lots of scarf glue-joints. This write-up suggests finishing with 2-pot clear polyurethane varnish. Today, after seeing how the coating of Malena's mast failed after 15-16 years, I rather recommend using white 2-pot paint. That write-up needs revising, to also include hybrid aluminium-wood construction.

    Arne

  • 22 May 2018 17:13
    Reply # 6252277 on 5714091

    Thanks Annie


    Your help is gratefully received.


    Arne, i would have had the same notions about solid trunks as masts versus lamited timber masts but, Annie & Petes masts on Badger tell us they are very strong and have excellent longevity.

    My worry is that, due to the length of the main mast, I would require scarphes in the middle with a laminated mast or have the huge weight with 3 solid trunks as masts? Or i could go with steel as suggested by David Tyler but, weight aloft is again an issue due to coming to the conclusion that the wall will be 10mm. If i have this wrong then please let me know? My boat is steel, 60ft x 17ft and will have a displacement of around 28 tons?


    I am waiting for quotes on the steel and Douglas Fir for my masts thanks to Annie & Davids suggestions.


    Thanks to everyone who has offered advice


    Trev 

  • 24 May 2018 08:40
    Reply # 6257817 on 6252277
    Trev, we built our masts out of 6x3 because we couldn't find any trees big enough.  In fact we originally went to buy a couple of trees, but when we got to the yard, the ones that they had were all too small, so we bought the douglas fir instead.  It was a pretty rough and ready wood yard, but the wood was OK and the price was right.  Our masts, by the way, had scarphs in them, which we staggered.  No big deal.

    I think that masts are well worth covering with glass and epoxy, if you anticipate doing a lot of mile,s and this isn't necessarily easy to do with a tree trunk.  However, if you are a couple of years from launching, then the wood will probably be sufficiently well-seasoned by the end of the build so that you can do the job then.  Alternatively, you could make the masts and sail for a couple of years or so until they have seasoned in situ, then take them out, scrape them down, fill any shakes and do the glass/epoxy treatment then.  Of course, by that time you might have decided they don't really need it.

    Why would a solid, grown mast, shaped to suit, weigh more than a solid, laminated one?

    Steel isn't that much lighter than wood: as your boat is about 28 tons, I don't think the weight of the spars is going to be that much of an issue, especially as with a three-masted junk rig, they won't be that long. 


  • 24 May 2018 10:52
    Reply # 6258784 on 5714091

    Hi Trevor,

    have you looked at Chinese made flag poles?

    I did some research about a year ago and found prices for a bare pole to be very competitive (around $700 US for an 11.8 meter spar, 200mm at the base and tapered in the top 1/3 to 100mm at the top, 5mm wall thickness, all in one piece) The problem was delivery which more than doubled the cost. Since then I have found out that there are companies that specialize in getting things delivered from China and their costs are much less than those quoted by the flagpole  manufacturer.

    They also produce stainless steel flagpoles, this could suit your boat and they make them up to about 30 meters long.

    This could be worth some investigation, especially for the delivery.

  • 24 May 2018 11:04
    Reply # 6258788 on 5714091

    Good points Annie!


    I am fairly new to all this and while i have a broad knowledge of buying & selling boats and parts, I don’t know much about sailing and Junk rigs so hopefully People will understand if my questions sometimes seem a little odd :)


    If I didn’t know about your masts then i would have never believed they would be strong enough or that they would have the longevity that yours have had but, the proof, is obviously in the pudding.


    If i laminated my masts i (due to the diameter) was thinking of making them hollow with, a 4 to 6” wall thickness? If i used a Douglas Fir Log, i suppose i would keep it solid as I couldn’t imagine how on earth you would hollow out something so long (45ft+)?


    Are there any Junks around that are a similar size to mine with 3 masts that i could compare with? Or maybe, converse with to get an idea of any pitfalls or indeed, any positives that i may come up against? Anyone?


    Thanks Annie! I know you think small is beautiful and i do agree but, with the plans i have, small wasn’t an option. I have bought & sold a couple of 40 footers in the last year, one steel and one wood and considered it but, i love the bigger boat, even though they were almost ready to go and mine is at least a couple of years away.


    Trev 

  • 25 May 2018 08:21
    Reply # 6260865 on 6258788
    Well, Trev, wood has been around for a long time and big trees stand up to a lot of wind.  Personally, I suck my teeth about alloy masts and am very comfortable with wood.

    If you go here you will find an excellent article by Arne all about making a wooden mast, including making a hollow spar from a tree trunk.  You can find useful information in PJR.

     Some of the larger Colvins are around your size and have three masts.  Many have metal spars, but if you rummage through the directories, using Colvin as your search word, you might find one with wooden spars.  We also have one or two genuine Chinese junks among the membership who might be able to help you.  Again, I recommend you having a good rummage in the directories, which you will find by clicking on the Members' Area 'button' to the left.

    Yes, I think Small is Beautiful but it would be a boring old world if we all thought the same!


  • 27 May 2018 21:02
    Reply # 6267492 on 6258784
    David Webb wrote:

    Hi Trevor,

    have you looked at Chinese made flag poles?

    I did some research about a year ago and found prices for a bare pole to be very competitive (around $700 US for an 11.8 meter spar, 200mm at the base and tapered in the top 1/3 to 100mm at the top, 5mm wall thickness, all in one piece) The problem was delivery which more than doubled the cost. Since then I have found out that there are companies that specialize in getting things delivered from China and their costs are much less than those quoted by the flagpole  manufacturer.

    They also produce stainless steel flagpoles, this could suit your boat and they make them up to about 30 meters long.

    This could be worth some investigation, especially for the delivery.

    Hi David


    Thank you


    I looked into this last year and had some really good quotes but, if there is an error, you are stuck with it and from experience, you do have to be very careful to make sure they have every detail correct and that they are who they say they are as i have almost been scammed twice.


    Trev 

  • 27 May 2018 21:22
    Reply # 6267495 on 6260865
    Annie Hill wrote:Well, Trev, wood has been around for a long time and big trees stand up to a lot of wind.  Personally, I suck my teeth about alloy masts and am very comfortable with wood.

    If you go here you will find an excellent article by Arne all about making a wooden mast, including making a hollow spar from a tree trunk.  You can find useful information in PJR.

     Some of the larger Colvins are around your size and have three masts.  Many have metal spars, but if you rummage through the directories, using Colvin as your search word, you might find one with wooden spars.  We also have one or two genuine Chinese junks among the membership who might be able to help you.  Again, I recommend you having a good rummage in the directories, which you will find by clicking on the Members' Area 'button' to the left.

    Yes, I think Small is Beautiful but it would be a boring old world if we all thought the same!


    Thanks Annie


    I have read Arnes text on Making a Wooden Spar amongst others.


    I will have a look for the boats you mention.


    Hope Sib Lim is going well? Looks great so far ...Trev 

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