Junk Vocabulary [moving to Wiki format, see posts]

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  • 07 Oct 2013 10:07
    Message # 1406534
    Anonymous
    Aim
    To create a comprehensive junk rig vocabulary, primarily for the benefit of new members.

    Skills
    Research, writing, document production, upload to web.

    Background
    This project was instigated by Bruce Weller who, as a then new member, found that he needed a junk 'dictionary'. The project is up and running and Bruce's work can be seen here. He may wish to extend it or someone else may like to take it on or collaborate.
    Last modified: 20 Apr 2014 17:20 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Nov 2013 20:23
    Reply # 1440187 on 1406534
    Great to see that this project has taken off again in the Junk Vocabulary thread of the JRA, its Magazine and Website forum. Please feel free to keep it going there or to jump in here if you feel you can help bring this project to fruition.

    Update - since writing the above, Dave and I have agreed to use this thread for discussion of terms that May.should be defined in the junk vocab project, and the above thread for more wolly, philosophical stuff. If we can keep to this, that will help keep proposed edits/additions in one place.
    .
    Last modified: 29 Nov 2013 16:48 | Anonymous member
  • 28 Nov 2013 04:04
    Reply # 1447765 on 1406534
    Here's an adjunct list I've been assembling for the Vocabulary. I excluded some which are reasonably well known (such as Z), but haven't appeared in any amateur discussion I've seen. Not sure if these should be added if and when they arise, or we should broaden out to the next level?

    I'm planning to add the metric equivalents of such terms as PPI, but haven't gone looking, yet. Anyone know 'em off the top of their head?

    Any corrections, additions or suggestions are welcome!

    Common Acronyms:

    B: Batten -- Length of batten as measured from one end to the other. Used in PJR for many calculations.

    CB: Center of Buoyancy -- The averaged locus of all the 'floaty forces' acting upon a hull. A hull rolls, pitches and yaws around its CB.

    CE: Center of Effort -- The averaged locus of the forces developed by an airfoil (sail).

    CG: Center of Gravity -- The averaged locus of the distribution of a vessel's mass.

    CLR: Center of Lateral Resistance -- The averaged locus of a hulls underwater, profile silhouette.

    Dmin: Minimum Drift -- The minimum drift required for full and proper function. [PJR pg. 63]

    DWL: Design Water Line -- The water line at which a vessel at which a vessel is designed to float.

    JR: Junk Rig -- Best rig ever.

    LAP: Length Above Partners -- The distance from a mast's partners to its masthead.

    LOA: Length Over All -- A vessel's length as measured from foremost to aftmost components. Many harbors charge proportional to the LOA.

    LOD: Length on Deck -- A hull's length as measured from bow to transom.

    LR: Lateral Resistance -- A vessel's resistance to thwartships motion through water.

    LWL: Load Water Line -- The WL to which a vessel is laden.

    LWL: Length Water Line -- Length of a hull measured at the WL (see WLL).

    P: Panel -- The height of a JR panel. Used in PJR for calculations of sail geometry and rigging components. Exact determination varies by context. [PJR fig. 2.20]

    PSI: Pounds per Square Inch -- Common unit for measuring pressure.

    PPI: Pounds per Inch of Immersion -- Pounds of lading required to raise a given hulls WL one inch.

    PJR: Practical Junk Rig -- Book by HG Hasler and JK McLeod.

    S: Sling point -- The point from which the yard is hung from the halyard. [PJR Fig. 6.8]

    WL: Water Line -- 1) The idealized line formed by the intersection of a vessel with the surface of flat water. 2) A line painted or graven, indicating the DWL or other lading lines. 3) In boat design, the line formed at the intersection of the hull and horizontal planes at (any) specified height.

    WLL: Water Line Length -- Length of a hull measured at the WL (see LWL).
    Last modified: 28 Nov 2013 04:43 | Anonymous member
  • 28 Nov 2013 04:11
    Reply # 1447767 on 1406534
     Drift: The limit (and sometimes range) of motion for a rigging component (such as a block) constrained by rigging. [PJR pg. 63]

    Dmin (Minimum Drift): The minimum drift required for full and proper function. [PJR pg. 63]

    This is just a stab at the def... can't say I'm totally satisfied.

    Dave Z
  • 28 Nov 2013 21:22
    Reply # 1448126 on 1447765
    Dave Zeiger wrote:Common Acronyms:

    Abbreviations, please, Dave.  An acronym is a word formed from the initial letters of other words, eg AIDS

    CE: Center of Effort -- The averaged locus of the forces developed by an airfoil (sail).

    Is a junk sail an airfoil?

    CLR: Center of Lateral Resistance -- The averaged locus of a hull's underwater, profile silhouette.

    DWL: Design Water Line -- The water line at which a vessel at which a vessel is designed to float.

    Design or Designed?

    LOA: Length Over All -- A vessel's length as measured from foremost to aftmost components. Many harbors charge proportional to the LOA.

    A vessel's length, as measured from the foremost to aftermost components. Many harbor's charges are proportional to the LOA.

    LOD: Length on Deck -- A hull's length as measured from bow to transom.

    bow to stern

    LR: Lateral Resistance -- A vessel's resistance to athwartships motion through water.

    LWL: Length Water Line -- Length of a hull measured at the WL (see WLL).

    Load Water Line - same as DWL as I understand it.

    P: Panel -- The height of a JR panel. Used in PJR for calculations of sail geometry and rigging components. Exact determination varies by context. [PJR fig. 2.20]

    PSI: Pounds per Square Inch -- Common unit for measuring pressure.

    PPI: Pounds per Inch of Immersion -- Pounds of lading required to raise a given hull's WL one inch.

    PJR: Practical Junk Rig -- Book by HG Hasler and JK McLeod.

    S: Sling point -- The point from which the yard is hung from the halyard. [PJR Fig. 6.8]

    WL: Water Line -- 1) The idealized line formed by the intersection of a vessel with the surface of flat water. 2) A line painted or graven, indicating the DWL or other lading lines. 3) In boat design, the line formed at the intersection of the hull and horizontal planes at (any) specified height.

    WLL: Water Line Length -- Length of a hull measured at the WL (see LWL).

    And DWL

  • 29 Nov 2013 06:13
    Reply # 1448218 on 1448126
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Dave Zeiger wrote:Common Acronyms:

    Abbreviations, please, Dave.  An acronym is a word formed from the initial letters of other words, eg AIDS
    Actually, these are all acronyms, made up, as you say, of the initial letters of the principal words they represent.

    I've capitalized the principle letters in the transliteration. The exceptions are PPI (which should rightly be PPII, but is not used that I'm aware), Dmin (which is only half an acronym), and S (which would be SP if it were a true acronym). 

    Minor words are often skipped, as in USA (for US of A).

    Still, as acronyms are abbreviations (though not always the reverse), I have no objection to either heading
    .



    CE: Center of Effort -- The averaged locus of the forces developed by an airfoil (sail).

    Is a junk sail an airfoil?
    Hmm... I'd say so, as even flat sails develop airfoil through stretch, batten bend and twist. But it could be confusing.

    We could start with the design definition and deemphasize the point:


    CE: Center of Effort -- The geometric center of sail area(s), drawn flat. In practice, the CE is the locus of sail drive, and adjusts with sail trim.


    CLR: Center of Lateral Resistance -- The averaged locus of a hull's underwater, profile silhouette.
    Dmin: minimum Drift -- The minimum drift required for full and proper function. [PJR pg. 63]

    DWL: Design Water Line -- The water line at which a vessel at which a vessel is designed to float.

    Design or Designed?
    All the references I found say 'Design' when deconstructing the acronym. In textual elaborations, 'designed' is used in the body of text. It's possible this is American usage, though google returns from British designers were the same.

    LOA: Length Over All -- A vessel's length, as measured from the foremost to aftermost components. Many harbor's charges are proportional to the LOA.

    LOD: Length on Deck -- A hull's length as measured from bow to stern.

    LR: Lateral Resistance -- A vessel's resistance to athwartships motion through water.

    LWL: Length Water Line -- Length of a hull measured at the waterline (see WLL).

    LWL: Load Water Line
    - See DWL, which term is now more commonly used.
    P: Panel -- The height of a JR panel. Used in PJR for calculations of sail geometry and rigging components. Exact determination varies by context. [PJR fig. 2.20]

    PSI: Pounds per Square Inch -- Common unit for measuring pressure.

    PPI: Pounds per Inch of Immersion -- Pounds of lading required to raise a given hull's WL one inch.

    PJR: Practical Junk Rig -- Book by HG Hasler and JK McLeod.

    S: Sling point -- The point from which the yard is hung from the halyard. [PJR Fig. 6.8]

    WL: Water Line -- 1) The idealized line formed by the intersection of a vessel with the surface of flat water. 2) A line painted or graven, indicating the DWL or other lading lines. 3) In boat design, the line formed at the intersection of the hull and horizontal planes at (any) specified height.

    WLL: Water Line Length -- Length of a hull measured at the waterline (see LWL and DWL).
    Hi Annie,

    Thanks for the suggestions and corrections!

     I changed all entries except am waiting on the title and DWL in this post, pending responses.

    Dave Z

    Last modified: 29 Nov 2013 06:20 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Nov 2013 12:35
    Reply # 1448296 on 1406534
    Hi Dave. Re the Junk Rig entry on Wilipedia that you mentioned elsewhere, I tweak that content from time to time. It might be an idea to extend that junk rig entry to include a junk vocabulary section.. We (i.e. you - see my recent email :-) could paste in Bruce's work, add in yours, and then throw it open to members. You could then moderate on as as needs basis. What do you think? As Lesley said, a Wiki could be ideal, particularly for a text-based project such as this. We'd love you to co-ordinate this project if Bruce is busy on other things.
  • 29 Nov 2013 12:44
    Reply # 1448297 on 1406534
    Design or Designed? Acronym or Abbreviation? We are now an international organisation so I suggest whoever is driving this project takes that decision. Life's too short to worry too much about this. Let's just keep the project moving and hopefully in a form that anyone can drop in and out of without having to move files around - see above re wikipedia.
    Last modified: 29 Nov 2013 16:45 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Nov 2013 22:19
    Reply # 1448507 on 1406534
    RE adding JR Vocab to Wikipedea:

    I'm hesitant about this. Wikipedea has its own standards and criteria for entries, many of which are designed to exclude special interests. JRA does have special interests, which may conflict, at least to some degree. 

    For example, one of the JRA purposes for the Vocabulary is to establish standard terms. This would be a goal incompatible with Wikipedea neutrality guidelines.

    What I'd suggest is creating our own Vocabulary (and/or other resources) and adding a link on the Wikipedea article under 'external links'. This maintains our freedom to tailor it to our perspective and needs, while making it available to the public through that portal.

    The Vocabulary could then be in any web accessible format, including wiki.

    RE wiki environment for document development:

    Again, I'm impressed by the approach and its results. 

    The theory is that, as any authorized member can (reversibly) modify the collaborative document at any time, a form of natural selection improves the document in step-wise fashion. 

    What amounts to a forum is associated with each document for discussion, and the history of revisions is always available for back-tracking. Thus editorial corrections, wording improvements, expansions and additions can (at best) be made by members whenever a problem is noted, without further oversight.

    In practice, an editor (or group) is likely a good idea, to step in and arbitrate when spirited counter-edits get going. This is something that can occur in communities whose members espouse strong opinions.  8)

    RE my involvement:

    I'd be happy to collate the Vocab document, and add in any additions through March 2014. I'll need an administrator to work with me a bit via email, to get me up to speed (Would that be you, Brian? Or Lesley?).

    Once a JRA wiki environment has been set up (I can't do that due to poor connectivity) - assuming that's the direction taken - I can transfer it from it's present form into a wiki, so long as it's within that same timeframe.

    Dave Z
    Last modified: 29 Nov 2013 22:22 | Anonymous member
  • 30 Nov 2013 15:01
    Reply # 1448755 on 1406534
    Hi Dave. I replied to your email (copy to Lesley) before I saw your latest post. I think it covers all of the points you made above, including admin assistance, which either of us can give. Get back to me here when you've reached a (possibly joint) decision.
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       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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