Mast and spar search...

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  • 21 May 2018 02:41
    Reply # 6245743 on 5662728

    Yea, .156 if I go with a lightly larger diameter at the base( 7" for example) on a CD25 however....

    as far as the CD25.... I crawled around a CD27 yesterday (600+ mile round trip ) and, well, er,  Plan B is for a CD27 now. I really liked it as a platform for a junk rig.  the one I saw was too much Of a project boat. I want to build the rig and sail not the rest of it.  The CD27 will probably require a .188 6 " or 7" base. haven't run the numbers yet

    As Arnie pointed out in another thread, three+ people in the cockpit of a smaller boat might make a heavier mast forward acceptable.

    Last modified: 21 May 2018 02:46 | Anonymous member
  • 20 May 2018 19:22
    Reply # 6245280 on 6245105
    Dave Rieger wrote:
    robert self wrote:

    wondering if they'd hold off on drilling holes for the halyard cleat. Reply was that's standard procedure. Hence, no drilled holes, no welding anywhere, perfect. The stuff they put at the the very top can be easily cut off with a hacksaw...and you put your own top piece on.

    I agree. Plan A is to find a way to have them NOT do additional work on the 'blank' pole (might even be cheaper) WITH OUT ALERTING THEM that something different was going to be done here ;-)


    You probably know this already but just in case:

    Her is the spec on a similar flagpole from another company - note the weight.

    Specifications

    A. Mounting Height: 30'
    B. Set Depth: 3'-0"
    C. Total Length: 33'-0"
    D. Taper Length: 13'-9"
    E. Butt Diameter: 6.000"
    F. Top Diameter: 3.500"
    G. Wall Thickness: 0.188"
    Flagpole Sections: 1
    Flagpole Weight: 209 lbs.
    Max Flag Size: 6' x 10'
    Max Wind Speed w/ Flag: 120 mph
    Max Wind Speed No Flag: 190 mph

    http://www.americanflagpole.com/dwg-pdf/ESR30D61-02.pdf
    Yes, appears to have similar specs. I can't tell from the pic or description in the pdf if this pole is also cone-tapered. Your item D. above implys that it might be. The spec sheet from United:

    http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/flagpolesetc/30x6x188_ext_alum.png

    is more explicit about the cone-tapering.

    Re: the weight. That's in the right ballpark for 33 ft x 3/16 wall according to the literature I have. You could lose around 30 pounds if you went with 0.156 (5/32) wall if your specs allow (and if they make one).

    If your target design is a cape dory 25 and you are going to retain the spec SA/D of 16.68 (which is pretty generous already) with 262 sqft sail area then you might get away with a shorter, thinner-walled and lighter (aluminum) mast.

    Last modified: 20 May 2018 19:36 | Anonymous member
  • 20 May 2018 18:18
    Reply # 6245105 on 6244913
    robert self wrote:

    wondering if they'd hold off on drilling holes for the halyard cleat. Reply was that's standard procedure. Hence, no drilled holes, no welding anywhere, perfect. The stuff they put at the the very top can be easily cut off with a hacksaw...and you put your own top piece on.

    I agree. Plan A is to find a way to have them NOT do additional work on the 'blank' pole (might even be cheaper) WITH OUT ALERTING THEM that something different was going to be done here ;-)


    You probably know this already but just in case:

    Her is the spec on a similar flagpole from another company - note the weight.

    Specifications

    A. Mounting Height: 30'
    B. Set Depth: 3'-0"
    C. Total Length: 33'-0"
    D. Taper Length: 13'-9"
    E. Butt Diameter: 6.000"
    F. Top Diameter: 3.500"
    G. Wall Thickness: 0.188"
    Flagpole Sections: 1
    Flagpole Weight: 209 lbs.
    Max Flag Size: 6' x 10'
    Max Wind Speed w/ Flag: 120 mph
    Max Wind Speed No Flag: 190 mph

    http://www.americanflagpole.com/dwg-pdf/ESR30D61-02.pdf
    Last modified: 20 May 2018 18:31 | Anonymous member
  • 20 May 2018 16:32
    Reply # 6244913 on 6243156
    Dave Rieger wrote:

    Side note: I had one supplier run away screaming into the night when I told him what I was going to do with the light pole. I forget which one. I was only doing research at the time but I realized that when the time comes - I won't be honest with the supplier as to intended use. I'll have it delivered to a friends legit business and go from there. 

    I fully agree with the above. Don't ask, don't tell. They don't, nor want, to know what you'll be doing.

    Of the vendors you list I like the cone tapered aluminum poles from United States Flag Store. Their 33 ft overall EC30 or ECH30, depending on your specs, would be right for around a 400 sqft sail area.

    I'd be interested in their external halyard poles. I've made inquiries through Ebay 

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Flag-Pole-30-ft-x-6-in-Butt-x-188-in-ext/380333496208?

    _trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid

    %3D5d117dc983af49cabab50522942ae32d%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D8%26rkt%3D8%26sd

    %3D331743123453&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

    wondering if they'd hold off on drilling holes for the halyard cleat. Reply was that's standard procedure. Hence, no drilled holes, no welding anywhere, perfect. The stuff they put at the the very top can be easily cut off with a hacksaw...and you put your own top piece on.

    I think I'd actually prefer a 2-piece pole because I believe the joint is as strong as the rest of the pole and it would be alot easier to handle (and store) for whatever fabrication I'd be doing (rigging halyards, installing topping lifts, fitting deck and step pieces, etc.

    Furthur, see website above) they sell through ebay often with free shipping (model dependent of course).

    They even sell off-the-shelf shoe base(s) too that might be useful for step or deck fitting:

    https://www.united-states-flag.com/shoe-base-flag-pole-accessories-fits-6in-butt-diameter-flagpole.html

    Good luck.

    Last modified: 20 May 2018 16:58 | Anonymous member
  • 19 May 2018 11:39
    Reply # 6243434 on 5662728

    Well, after due consideration and suggestions, I’m making wooden spars. . 


    Good luck with you own spar searches. 

  • 19 May 2018 02:43
    Reply # 6243156 on 5662728

    Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works,but I've done some research on the US side. Just as an FYI, here are some of the other options I've found. These Include Flag poles and Light poles as well

    https://www.lightmart.com/

    https://www.libertyflagpoles.com/collections/external-halyard-commercial-flagpoles

    https://www.united-states-flag.com/

    https://lightpolesplus.com/light-poles/

    http://www.americanflagpole.com/flagpoles/

    http://www.hapco.com/aluminum-poles/


    Side note: I had one supplier run away screaming into the night when I told him what I was going to do with the light pole. I forget which one. I was only doing research at the time but I realized that when the time comes - I won't be honest with the supplier as to intended use. I'll have it delivered to a friends legit business and go from there. Cant blame them for not getting involved in something they don't understand and have no experience with. Law suits are a sport here for some people.

    Good luck with your project





    Last modified: 19 May 2018 02:45 | Anonymous member
  • 18 May 2018 08:45
    Reply # 6241613 on 5662728
    Randy Repass Jr wrote:

    I have been searching around for the best bang for my buck on masts and spars.  The recent JRA article by Simon Foster on making spars using the company ALC was promising, but ALC will no longer supply masts and directed me to a supplier with a small range of options which I have been told are not heavy walled enough to do the job.

    I’ve received quotes from Hawk spars in the UK (£10k without battens) and Tuckwerkstatt in Germany (8600 euro, but need to be welded together-each mast comes in about 4 sections & no booms/yards/battens), the latter offering a better price. But both still seem quite high.

    I found a US supplier and two masts in one 40’ tapered length, and one in one 40’ tapered length + a 20’ straight comes out at $5000usd. That’s a good deal less. These come with 6.5mm walls and anodised to my choice of colour, likely “deep bronze”. Booms & yards seem to work out around $199 each (Hawk Spars averaged at about £300 [$410]) This is a lamp post supplier, lightmart.com

    The problem becomes getting them here, but may still work out better, I’ve not gotten a shipping quote yet. 

    In my search I thought I’d look to see if any European JRA members have had any luck with any suppliers on this side of the pond?

    Three aluminium masts; 35’ mizzen, 53’ main, 45’ fore + 3 booms & 3 yards

    Hawk spars: £10,000

    Tuchwerkstatt: £8000

    Lightmart.com: £4600


    Looks like I’ll be shipping from the US! Anyone else want to share a container?

    Hi Randy


    I too am looking for 3 masts of similar dimensions?


    Have you had a container and shipping quote yet?


    Trev 

  • 28 Jan 2018 21:47
    Reply # 5706083 on 5662728
    Hi Randy,

    Good to hear from you. I sympathise re your tech problem but can't enlighten you I'm afraid. The larch sounds good but I think it would be less springy than your D fir which would also be lighter, although I don't suppose weight is really a problem for you on this scale. Sitka does seem to be favoured by many for its spar-making qualities although it isn't as durable as the other two. If you have the D fir of good quality, that sounds favourite and it'd be very satisfying! But then, so would shaping the two sticks out of larch!

    Yes the 29 Cornish Crabber is the one we are converting. Made the mast and sail, have moved the mast position forward a few feet and from tabernacle to keel-stepped. have the step and partners just about made. Needs finishing for May this year!

    Keep us posted on your decision/progress!

    Cheers,

    Pol.

  • 28 Jan 2018 20:25
    Reply # 5705975 on 5693809
    POL BERGIUS wrote:

    Hi Randy, I'm rarely on here just now but I'm laid up in my bunk with one of the many bugs going around and I thought I'd cheer myself with a catch-up with things junk.... 

    Hi Pol, thanks a lot for your thoughts and your private message... sorry for the delay. It's been an issue using my iPhone to respond. This forum is built on out dated tech and it won't load properly on my phone... or so it seems. In fact, here on my laptop it's not showing the whole message I'm writing... seems an upgrade is needed.

    Anyway, I appreciate your kind offer of help. I learned today of a good source for very tall straight Larch, 100ft. But not sure they are sufficient. I believe sitka would be preferable. Though I'm still interested in using the awesome planks of Doug fir I have. 

    Then again, I'm making it sound like I'm set on Wood. Truth is, I'd like wood. Just need to settle. It would be cheaper for me, and have the beauty of the aesthetic which is huge for me. Is the boat you have in your profile, the one you're junk rigging Pol?

    Randy



  • 21 Jan 2018 17:27
    Reply # 5693809 on 5662728

    Hi Randy, I'm rarely on here just now but I'm laid up in my bunk with one of the many bugs going around and I thought I'd cheer myself with a catch-up with things junk.... As Annie kindly mentions I have a mill near Perth in Scotland. We have shaped a 33' and a 38' mast out of solid timber (8 sides and tapered) to be finished by JRA member and boatbuilder Dan Johnson. Dan was converting the 30' SOLITUDE and a folkboat at his yard in Ullapool. The bigger mast, for SOLITUDE, he hollowed out (I delivered it cut up the middle) while the wee one was used solid. We've also just made a  45' mast for our own JR conversion, which is laminated D fir out of 21/2" x 11" slabs. We milled the baulk to 8 sides and then shaped it on from there 'by hand'. I'd have liked to have made it the birdsmouth way, but it is now all painted up and ready to go and we hope to be sailing in May this year. A birdsmouth one may emerge in a year or two if we get time to do it. If you are still in Sligo maybe I can help you to find a local mill, or we can talk about doing it here. But you have the timber there....

    I am biased, of course, so I think wooden masts would be so much nicer aesthetically, and in use, and would probably suit your boat very well. Doesn't sound like weight will be an issue for you, in fact some more experienced than I might suggest that heavy masts would give your heavier boat an easier motion. If I can help, please give me a shout.

    Cheers,

    Pol


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