Engineless Junk

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  • 24 Apr 2017 23:06
    Reply # 4777260 on 4762649

    Well while we are moving in this direction, I must report on the Bukh that I currently have on board, as mentioned. The boat has been sat there for at least a year and possibly several without the engine running. I was able to turn it by hand so knew it wasn't seized, but realised I would probably have to do some work to get it going - at least bleed it. I nearly fell over when after a couple of pumps of the manual fuel pump it started within seconds?! That has to say something for this old style of engine. Or my luck.

    Thank you for the connection Jonathan - that will come in handy I'm sure!

    Back on the original topic, I have also done much the same thing David. Having an engine once led me to push on into a creek on the east coast I would not have tried under sail alone. I too ran aground and had to wait for the tide. Many hours later a passer by called the lifeboat and and they insisted on taking us off the boat - even with only one more hour to wait for the tide. But the real icing on the cake was when my crew jumped out of the rib onto the slipway, and I missed it and disappeared under the surface. I recall I did say several things at the time...

    Right. Back to designing this sail plan...



  • 24 Apr 2017 22:16
    Reply # 4776384 on 4762649
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I guess I am the guilty one in running this thread off the original track. Could I suggest we continue the outboard-engine discussion under this Outboard Engine topic?

    Arne

  • 24 Apr 2017 20:44
    Reply # 4774087 on 4771691
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    David Thatcher wrote:
    David Webb wrote:

     One other thing is that outboard motors with carburetor's should be run dry when stopping them, if being left for more than a couple of days, as residual deposits in the carburetor can cause starting and running problems. If they are run dry this does not occur.

    David Webb.

    I never let the carburetors run dry but never have any starting problems. I treat the 4 stroke 9.9hp Yamaha like an inboard engine and it always starts easily, even if left for a month or more. Similar for my 2 hp Yamaha 2 stroke dinghy outboard which I use only occasionally. I never let the carburetor run dry and it always starts easily. My 2 stroke chainsaw which is a German 'Solo' brand can go for a year of sitting in the workshop and then start very easily when I want to use it again despite having not drained the carburetor when stopping it


    Also on this theme (also digressing from motor/no motor) I believe it depends where you are in the world, whether or not it's okay to not run the carburetor dry. In the USA, gasoline now has a significant portion of ethanol, which has been creating terrible problems for small engines, to do with water being absorbed from the air, by the ethanol, then separating from the fuel, and causing corrosion. There are stabilizers one can add to the gasoline/ethanol, but running the carburetor dry is good insurance.
  • 24 Apr 2017 09:10
    Reply # 4771715 on 4762649

    I can think of two instances where having a motor, and using it, got me into - ahem - embarrassing situations, though not dangerous ones.

    1. When going through the Higgins Passage, BC, I decided to have a look onto an uncharted lagoon. Flat calm, no current, water the colour of strong tea, so any shoals wouldn't show up. Just after HW. Of course, I shouldn't have given into a whim, and paid for it by spending a tide perched on a rock. The only rock in the lagoon, as I saw at LW. Had to go onto a (soft) beach next day, and patch the glass on the bilge runner.

    2. Making for Oak Bay, Vancouver Island, calm, strong ebb, motoring to arrive when I had said I'd arrive, cut too close to Fiddle Reef, where I swear on my grandmother's grave that the chart is wrong, and shows enough water where in fact there is a shoal spot. Spent a tide perched on a rock. Had to swallow my pride and radio the CG. "I'm not in danger, but you're going to get some calls to say that there's a yacht aground on Fiddle Reef". No damage, but face covered in egg. Inshore lifeboat came to have a look, and crew had difficulty keeping straight faces.

    In both cases, if I'd had no motor, I couldn't have got myself into those situations. I'd have had to navigate more conservatively and cautiously.

  • 24 Apr 2017 08:26
    Reply # 4771691 on 4770153
    David Webb wrote:

     One other thing is that outboard motors with carburetor's should be run dry when stopping them, if being left for more than a couple of days, as residual deposits in the carburetor can cause starting and running problems. If they are run dry this does not occur.

    David Webb.

    We seem to be getting away from the main point of this thread which is whether to go with or without an engine. I think the consensus there seems to be that some form of engine can be quite a useful thing to have in certain situations and dependant on your cruising lifestyle and time constraints.

    I wanted to comment on Davids post above and also the later comments on outboards. I am a staunch defender of my Yamaha 9.9hp 4 stroke outboard, and other small 2 and 4 stroke motors. Being a bit of a farmer when I am not sailing or driving ferries I operate a lot of small engines: Quad bike, chainsaw, Scrub Cutter and various lawn mowers, being a mixture of 2 and 4 stroke engines. While the older points and condenser ignition technology motors used to give all sorts of starting and running problem,s these new motors with electronic ignition are the complete opposite and do not seem to have the same problems. I never let the carburetors run dry but never have any starting problems. I treat the 4 stroke 9.9hp Yamaha like an inboard engine and it always starts easily, even if left for a month or more. Similar for my 2 hp Yamaha 2 stroke dinghy outboard which I use only occasionally. I never let the carburetor run dry and it always starts easily. My 2 stroke chainsaw which is a German 'Solo' brand can go for a year of sitting in the workshop and then start very easily when I want to use it again despite having not drained the carburetor when stopping it, (Yes, I admit it, I am getting lazy in my old age and do not do as much physical work as I used to). I have found both the Yamaha motors a bit sensitive to 'old spark plugs' and if I do have any running problems I know it is time to change the plugs. For both motors this would be about every 18 months for the sort of usage I give them. Given that the spark plugs in my car are good for 100,000 km it seems there should be better spark technology available for small outboards. 

    So the point of this post is that if someone is looking for a 'minimal motor', a modern technology, high quality outboard engine can be a good way to go and these days they are very maintenance free.

    I live in the hope of finding a compact diesel powered outboard. I have found some which are produced in China and India but they look a bit 'third world'. No doubt ownership of one of them would be an interesting experience.

    Last modified: 24 Apr 2017 21:45 | Anonymous member
  • 23 Apr 2017 19:05
    Reply # 4770882 on 4762649

    Another thing about outboards, and motorbike engines as well, is that often, if the engine isn't used that much and doesn't start after a couple of pulls, it can be no harm just to pull the spark plug cap and lead off the spark plug and then just put it back on again without removing the plug.  Sometimes a little film or dampness can build up between the plug and the cap and prevent the spark from happening.  Handier and quicker than removing the plug.  If it still doesn't start, then it's time to take out the plug(s) and check for a spark.  

    It's worked a surprising amount of times for me and others in the club and saved having to dig out the tools and remove the plugs.  

  • 23 Apr 2017 08:45
    Reply # 4770442 on 4762649
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Since safe starting of any aux. engine is a part of this thread, here is an experience that I made only a week ago.

    A friend down the street called me and asked for help because his outboard engine refused to start. On arrival, I found he had mounted it on a 3-legged stand with the leg in a drum of water. The motor was a quite new 6hp, 4-stroke Tohatsu, almost identical to mine (on Ingeborg), except that this had an inboard tank in addition to a connection to an external one.

    We opened the petrol valve and pulled the chord, but no sign of life. Off with the hood and out with the sparkplug. The sparkplug looked fine and produced a nice spark when testing it. Funny that, I thought after we had refitted it: That sparkplug should have been wet after all out pulling with the choke on. Then I had a look at the tank.  It was a flat, tall thing; right in front of the engine. It was about ¼ full, and then I noticed that the ‘waterline’ of the fuel was well below the carburettor. In other words, if the carburettor was dry when it was to be started, an awful lot of pulls would be needed until the internal pump had filled it up to let it start. We then just filled the tank right up and waited for twenty seconds before pulling the start-chord again. Then the engine started right away, and ran sweetly.

    Moral:
    If you have one of these 4-6hp outboards and mainly want to use the internal tank, check the position of it with respect to the carburettor. If it is like my friend’s Tohatsu, then keep it topped up to ensure a quick and easy cold start when you suddenly need it.

    Arne


    Last modified: 23 Apr 2017 08:46 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 23 Apr 2017 00:29
    Reply # 4770153 on 4762649

    Hi, 

    one thing to consider is that motors left unused for long periods of time very quickly become unreliable. They need running regularly (at least once a week in my opinion) for at least half an hour, preferably under load. If this is done then when needed they can be relied on to start and do the job they need to do. Otherwise I am in agreement with the comments by David Tyler and David Thatcher.

     One other thing is that outboard motors with carburetor's should be run dry when stopping them, if being left for more than a couple of days, as residual deposits in the carburetor can cause starting and running problems. If they are run dry this does not occur.

    David Webb.

  • 22 Apr 2017 21:42
    Reply # 4769949 on 4768986
    David Tyler wrote:


    All in all, James, I think you'll be doing the right thing in keeping a motor that's in working order, ready to go, but in avoiding using it as much as possible. JR is so much handier in tight anchorages, that it's possible to avoid the use of the motor more than with bermudan rig. At the same time, we have to recognise that most marinas ban sailing in and out, and some harbours have tight fairways where sailing is forbidden.

    David Tyler has summed things up very nicely. A motor can be a very useful and 'safe' thing to have, but not too much motor. What I mean by this is that all of my yachts have had the minimum sized motor that can safely be used for the vessel. So I have never tried for a big fuel guzzling motor but rather have been happy with motors that give 5 knots under power in calm conditions, can assist in motor sailing situations, and allow me to get into marina and fuel berth, usually to fill up on water, and into and out of anchorages. I have been told by a number of people that Footprints needs a 'decent diesel engine', at least 30hp. But for me the 9.9hp outboard in the well is all the motor I need. It does the work required of it without being too intrusive.
  • 22 Apr 2017 14:34
    Reply # 4769467 on 4768542
    James Lovett wrote:

     As Serenity already has a Bukh DV20 in good order, I will keep it serviced and ready for use during the immediate period following her conversion. 

    James


    My previous boat had a Bukh engine and I had very good support with spares and advice from the Bukh specialists TW Marine , which is not too far from you.  


    T W Marine

    The Marina, Station Road, Furness Vale, SK23 7QA, England

    Tel: 01663 745757
    Email: tech@twmarine.co.uk



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