Wheel to Tiller conversion concerns

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  • 07 May 2017 13:31
    Reply # 4818898 on 4286270

    Hi Peter. 

    Thank you for the information. The setup you describe sounds extremely strong: I'm guessing that you have a spade rudder rather than a skeg hung like mine, which should require a less bomb-proof construction. 

    The existing rudder post simply ends 1 foot above the hull, with no support. All the forces are taken by the foot and hull bearings, so there is little structural demand, except for what I will put in it with that new tiller.  Those added forces should be taken up by the bushing/bearing at the cockpit sole point, I think. 

    Last modified: 09 May 2017 03:57 | Anonymous member
  • 06 May 2017 07:38
    Reply # 4817627 on 4793589
    Scott Dufour wrote:

    Next question:

    Is there any reason I shouldn't make the rudder tube out of white 2" PVC pipe?   I was thinking of going with preformed fiberglass tube, but that's quite a bit more pricey.

    Actually - it's tough to find good info about using this kind of pipe on marine applications.  What's the general consensus about incorporating it into various applications, fiberglassed  and epoxied in to various places?  I've used in successfully in smaller boats, but they are all trailer sailors and don't spend all that much time on the water. 

    No, do not make rudder tube out of cheap stuff. there are a lot of very strong forces working on a rudder on our boats we buy in grp handrail which is about 2-inch pipe very strong, we then rub down the outside of the tube to give it a good key we then make a four sided box leaving one side off. so we have a U shape we fill this with epoxy (thickened with silica and T Cell. lay the pipe in leave some overhang for shaping put the top of U shape on this now is a very strong assembly and being square will epoxy into the boat and can be easily braced with a bulkhead etc going right up to deck height

    for bearings, you can form some epoxy in a jug, let it set and then with a large pipe hole cutter cut out a circle to fit the tube and then with a smaller cutter a hole to fit your shaft epoxy into tube jobs done

    I have tiller steering for the boat in the workshop at the moment I like the feel of a tiller corrections are instant and you can go hard over so much quicker. lashing the helm is easy and any self-steering is cheaper  and easier to fit


    Last modified: 06 May 2017 07:45 | Anonymous member
  • 02 May 2017 15:10
    Reply # 4801734 on 4286270

    David Webb,

    Thank you for the advice.  I think you probably used Schedule 80 PVC - usually grey.  Schedule 40 is the typically white pipe, used for general mid-pressure applications.  Schedule 20 is for dust collection.

    It's one of the rare instances in US units where the larger numbers actually mean larger.

    I didn't know about the slight swelling PVC undergoes- that's good info.

     

  • 02 May 2017 09:53
    Reply # 4795278 on 4286270

    Hi Scott,

    I have used high pressure PVC pipe(schedule 20 if I remember correctly) for several applications on various boats. I find that in an extreme structural situation such as a rudder tube then scuff up the outside of the tube and fiberglass reinforce it  as you suggest. Be aware that PVC is slightly hydrophilic and will expand over time when immersed in water. I would recommend using a separate bearing top and bottom of non hydrophilic material to prevent this causing a problem with binding on the rudder shaft.

    David.

  • 01 May 2017 17:00
    Reply # 4793823 on 4286270

    As always, great information.  Thank you.

  • 01 May 2017 16:55
    Reply # 4793816 on 4286270

    Yes, that sounds fine. If the PVC tube is of a suitable size, you might get away without additional bearings. If you use copper tube as the former, you get antifouling properties, which is useful, though of course you might want to put HDPE or UHMWPE bearings at top and bottom of the tube. 

  • 01 May 2017 16:34
    Reply # 4793798 on 4286270

    Thank you, David.

    What do you think:  1/4" wall thickness made of 10 oz layers? 

  • 01 May 2017 16:26
    Reply # 4793791 on 4286270

    No. It isn't strong enough (unless you have a source of very thick-walled tube), and wouldn't bond into the boat very securely. But by all means use PVC tube as a former to make your own GRP tube using glass cloth and resin. That would work. I use this method to make seatubes on thin-walled copper plumbing tube.

  • 01 May 2017 14:16
    Reply # 4793589 on 4286270

    Next question:

    Is there any reason I shouldn't make the rudder tube out of white 2" PVC pipe?   I was thinking of going with preformed fiberglass tube, but that's quite a bit more pricey.

    Actually - it's tough to find good info about using this kind of pipe on marine applications.  What's the general consensus about incorporating it into various applications, fiberglassed  and epoxied in to various places?  I've used in successfully in smaller boats, but they are all trailer sailors and don't spend all that much time on the water. 

  • 28 Apr 2017 13:32
    Reply # 4789722 on 4286270

    Perfect, excellent, and most good.  All the answers that I like.

    So many complications go into adding a wheel.  I really don't understand some of the things that are done on production boats. 

     

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