hudson force 50 ketch conversion advice wanted!

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  • 10 Mar 2017 15:10
    Reply # 4659446 on 4658827
    David Tyler wrote:

    Hi John,

    I've had a look through the photos, and it all seems to be going very well. That was quite a task, to fix a hole that big in the side! 

    The little model of the rig looks attractive, to my eye.

    One question: you've filled in the well in the bow, so that you can fit the foremast there - where will the chain locker be, and how will it drain?

    I filled the well completely flush with the deck so there's no need for I solid blocked on both sides of my Sampson post and used several sheets of 3/4 ply sandwiches with glass in the bottom of the well and on the top also, the foremast sits right at the fore part of the waterline

       It to drain internally, the windlass will be between the formast and anchor roller and the chain

       Will fall below decks, there is a great place for it aft of the mast. I have 200ft of 3/8 chain also on    My secondary anchor I'll have 50 rode and line. 

  • 10 Mar 2017 15:05
    Reply # 4659439 on 4658827
    David Tyler wrote:

    Hi John,

    I've had a look through the photos, and it all seems to be going very well. That was quite a task, to fix a hole that big in the side! 

    The little model of the rig looks attractive, to my eye.

    One question: you've filled in the well in the bow, so that you can fit the foremast there - where will the chain locker be, and how will it drain?

    I filled the well completely flush with the deck so there's no need for I solid blocked on both sides of my Sampson post and used several sheets of 3/4 ply sandwiches with glass in the bottom of the well and on the top also, the foremast sits right at the fore part of the waterline

       It to drain internally, the windlass will be between the formast and anchor roller and the chain

       Will fall below decks, there is a great place for it aft of the mast. I have 200ft of 3/8 chain also on    My secondary anchor I'll have 50 rode and line. 

  • 10 Mar 2017 08:14
    Reply # 4658827 on 4128602

    Hi John,

    I've had a look through the photos, and it all seems to be going very well. That was quite a task, to fix a hole that big in the side! 

    The little model of the rig looks attractive, to my eye.

    One question: you've filled in the well in the bow, so that you can fit the foremast there - where will the chain locker be, and how will it drain?

  • 10 Mar 2017 07:36
    Reply # 4658763 on 4128602

    FiFinally I put some pictures up, 

    Aany and all thoughts regarding my prodject would be greatly appreciated.

    I'iIm trying to get it in the water asap and move aboard them I'll take the time to 

    B build the rig. I've never had such an amazing experience and took on such

        A large prodject on a tight budget

       It is amazing what can be done with some research and humble realization that 

      There's people that know a lot more than me. I'm a carpenter by trade and have little experience 

      I in boatbuilding/repair 

      Once again thank you JRA for amazing resources and JRA members for your help


  • 13 Jan 2017 14:40
    Reply # 4545953 on 4128602
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    John

    Go to your profile (view profile at top of the page) then click Member Photo Albums. Here you can create albums to which you can upload photos on a given topic.

    If you want to get really clever you can link to them in your posts using the linker above (chain icon), or even paste thumbnails, linking to the original so they can be clicked and viewed full size - like this:.

    http://www.junkrigassociation.org/resources/MemberAlbums/13156003/PJR/5-point%20sheeting.jpg

    Note: Any image you paste into a post like this needs to be no wider than 420 pixels, otherwise it causes your text to spill off the side of the page and be unreadable.

    Chris


    Last modified: 13 Jan 2017 14:43 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 13 Jan 2017 14:30
    Reply # 4545948 on 4128602

    Well guys Ibe been missing for a few months but haven't given up yet,

    Redoing a 50ft boat on your spare time, married with two kids and one on the way is challenging to say the least, but oh how much fun! I'm nearing the end of my first year and have made tremendous progress, I finally decided on my mast placement and am working on those , for my mast collars a purchased schedule 80 12" flanges, incredible strong and only 130$ apiece, I plan on the majority of my shims being below this to they won't take the abuse, is there anyway to post pictures on these message boards ? I'd like to show you some of the progress I've made and as always ask questions,

  • 18 Jul 2016 21:12
    Reply # 4138653 on 4128602

    Hi John! I am on the West Coast of the US. I'd be happy to chat with you. I am not an expert in the use of the Junk Rig, but I have done a lot of the maths involved and would be interested in talking with you about your project. What follows is just my two cents on your situation.. please don't take it as gospel :-)

    The Force 50 is a substantial boat, and seriously bluewater. It looks to me like an excellent candidate for Junk Rig conversion, as it has a full keel without much of the forefoot cutaway, good form stability, and plenty of buoyancy in the bow. And it was designed by Bill Garden... quite the pedigree.

    One thing I would suggest... you do not want to rush it. Planning the rig is really, really important and doing the maths is also really, really important. You have to additionally remember that with a Junk Rig, you wont be flying a spinnaker for downwind, and you wont have a specific light airs setup, so you may want to add a bit of area to handle light airs sailing (Unless you plan on using your iron jib for that). In that case, to get something like a 16.5 SA/D you would need about 140 square meters of sail (1500 square feet) flying. But thats entirely up to you, as of course that entails larger masts, etc. 

    Personally, I intend on going all the way to 20+ SA/D and just keep it reefed all the time except when I need to ghost. 

    With that much sail area, even if you split between two masts, you really won't want to have a 900 square foot sail to manage if you can avoid it. So if you wanted two, it would probably have to be an equal split (like so many of our members do) or near equal. Far better would be to have three sails of something like 700, 500 and 300, or some other proportion that works with your Center of Effort, keeping the biggest sail size as small as possible, and as the central, mainsail.

    Also, you probably can't keep your ketch mizzen as it is. On the Force 50 it requires a Triatic to stay firmly attached, and you can't have one of those on a Junk Rig. You will likely need to keel step it, which in your case sounds like it will have to be relocated, or a Multi Truss, tie rods and buttress installed to handle not keel stepping it. Either way needs to be free standing, so you can imagine the engineering that will need to be done to keep it from being keel stepped. 

    So... keel stepping is really the only way to go, as far as I know! Assuming you don't want to involve yourself in serious engineering problems. I am going to guess that one of our more experienced members will step in to correct me on this one, if there is something I have missed.

    Please do follow our more experienced member's advice and read Arne's articles. He has graciously given us some fantastic knowledge on how to achieve just what you are trying to achieve. Look through his stuff, and find the things related to calculating Center of effort, center of lateral resistance, and so on (also found in PJR). He has loads of practical advice, and if you read PJR as well, there isn't anything stopping you from doing it.


  • 14 Jul 2016 22:14
    Reply # 4133093 on 4132866
    john campbell wrote:I guess in part I'm Hoping I'm not being unrealistic in thinking I can Design this on my own with the resources on hand and end up With a descent set up,

    As David said, there is no reason at all why you shouldn't.  One of the marvellous things about this website is the amount of information available and the way it can put you in touch with people who have already done similar projects.

    maybe I could run A forestay for just the storm sail.

    Most junks don't use a storm jib: you don't normally need one to heave to in bad weather: the mainsail, sheeted hard in and reefed right down suffices for most boats.  Each vessel is different of course.

    Also the aluminum or steel mast seem more practical than wood .... Bummer Because I love wooden mast,

    You are in a great place for buying a decent, spar-grade tree.  If you find the idea of building two spars daunting, look at Arne's information (again!!). You will find a great little treatise on building a mast from a tree. 

    Any other books that could help please mention

    Derek Van Loan's Book, Design and Build Your Own Junk Rig is apparently available as an e-book.  He built rigs on big, heavy-displacement boats and many of his ideas may well suit you.

    And if there is a resource on the west coast of the US that Anyone knows of I would love to check out there boat And familiarize myself with the rig on a first hand basis.

    If you go to the Membership list you might well find junkies you could go and visit.


    Best of luck!
  • 14 Jul 2016 20:04
    Reply # 4132895 on 4132866
    john campbell wrote:

    Hoping I'm not being unrealistic in thinking I can design this on my own with the resources on hand and end up with a decent set up,

    Also the aluminum or steel mast seem more practical than wood .... Bummer, because I love wooden masts,

    Any other books that could help please mention

    That's not unrealistic at all. PJR enables you to do just that, as all you need to know is laid out very clearly. Many people have built junk rigs using PJR as their only source of information, and now there are further resources, help and advice freely available here.

    Don't write off wooden masts entirely; they are practical, especially when glass-sheathed, and you have the woodworking skills to make them. Just don't underestimate the work involved in making masts this big. Try to get a look at a copy of "The new cold-molded boatbuilding" by Reuel Parker, which has a good chapter on making large six-staved wooden masts.
  • 14 Jul 2016 19:35
    Reply # 4132866 on 4128602
    Thanks again for all the advice,

    I'm taking it all in

    I've ordered Practical junk rig and am reading 

    Everything I can on the subject, I guess in part I'm 

    Hoping I'm not being unrealistic in thinking I can 

    Design this on my own with the resources on hand and end up 

    With a descent set up,

    I can see now how two mast are better than one and 

    I'm willing to forgo my jib if need be,

    Being that I have a substantial bowsprit and my 

    Anchor roller is integral to that maybe I could run 

    A forestay for just the storm sail.

    Also the aluminum or steel mast seem more practical than wood .... Bummer 

    Because I love wooden mast,

    Any other books that could help please mention

    And if there is a resource on the west coast of the US that 

    Anyone knows of I would love to check out there boat 

    And familiarize myself with the rig on a first hand basis

    Once again thanks, I'm excited about this project!!









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